Comparison of two English phrases: which one is the best?
Thread poster: MMUlr
MMUlr  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:55
English to German
+ ...
May 26, 2005

I would like to invite the English native speakers among Proz.com to compare the following two phrases and discuss on the issue, which phrase they like best and the reason(s) why.

You see the topic was once posted as a question at Kudoz, but now the current problem with the translation - in my opinion - is better to be discussed in a forum like this. I don't want to give more details on the phrases or on the background/context in order to avoid any influence on the discussion.

1. phrase:

"The vision for more health."

2. phrase:

"Our vision for better health."

Every comment is highly appreciated!

Margret Ulrich


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Johansson  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:55
Swedish to English
A state of well-being May 26, 2005

I would definately prefer phrase 2 because health is a state of well-being and you cannot therefore collect more of it but you can change it.

MMUlr wrote:

I would like to invite the English native speakers among Proz.com to compare the following two phrases and discuss on the issue, which phrase they like best and the reason(s) why.

You see the topic was once posted as a question at Kudoz, but now the current problem with the translation - in my opinion - is better to be discussed in a forum like this. I don't want to give more details on the phrases or on the background/context in order to avoid any influence on the discussion.

1. phrase:

"The vision for more health."

2. phrase:

"Our vision for better health."

Every comment is highly appreciated!

Margret Ulrich


[Edited at 2005-05-26 07:48]


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:55
Spanish to English
+ ...
more health? May 26, 2005

MMUlr wrote:



1. phrase:

"The vision for more health."

2. phrase:

"Our vision for better health."

Every comment is highly appreciated!

Margret Ulrich


You can't have MORE health, like you can have more objects. It can't be counted in units 1, 2, 3 etc

You can have BETTER health in the qualitative sense, measuring things that can be quantified, and summing the results to arive at a qualitative description of an overall state of health

The choice of The vs Our is more a stylistic one, but Our sounds better...:-)


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Joanna Mimmack  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:55
German to English
Our vision for better health May 26, 2005

I agree with the previous two comments. The first phrase reads like a translation to me. 'More health' is definitely a no-no.

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Rebecca Hendry  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:55
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Number 2! May 26, 2005

I agree with what the others have said. "more health" just doesn't work, the whole phrase seems awkward and I doubt a native speaker would use it.

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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 04:55
German to English
Okay, May 26, 2005

These are phrases as you say. Are they to be a heading in a brochure, a phrase within a sentence, or a company slogan?

I agree with Derek who posted below. There's something missing.
"Our vision for better health" is the better of the two but still sounds like a direct translation.

As a heading I would write "Better Health: Our Vision"

As a phrase within a sentence I would write: "Our vision for the future of better health bladebla "

As a slogan, and this one's difficult, I would start with:
"We have a vision. Better health."

sylvie






[Edited at 2005-05-26 09:26]


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John Bowden  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:55
German to English
The second version is the only possible one May 26, 2005

"Health" as a noun is not a quantity - you can't have "less health" or "more health" than anybody else. Health can only be described in terms of quality, e.g. good/bad health, and therefore "better" or "worse" health.

The problem may have arisen through confusion with the adjective, "healthy", which has comparative and superlative forms ("he is healthier than I am","He is the healthiest person I have ever met"). Of course, "healthy" means "enjoying good health" - so again it's not an adjective of quantity, but of quality.

HTH


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Derek Gill Franßen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:55
German to English
+ ...
I second that... May 26, 2005

Of the two, the second is better (MORE health? THE vision?). They both seem to lead up to something (which is missing), and neither of them has a verb - so why the period? If this is supposed to be a heading, then I don't think you need a period.


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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:55
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
no. 2 May 26, 2005

MMUlr wrote:

"Our vision for better health."


because you can't increase it in quantity but can certainly do something about quality.


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Kevin Burns
German to English
more health is possible May 26, 2005

consider an election slogan (albeit for a communist party):
"our vision: more health, less wealth"

not grammatically correct but English all the same.

Kevin


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Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:55
Member (2003)
German to Dutch
+ ...
You made me ever so curious May 26, 2005

MMUlr wrote:

I don't want to give more details on the phrases or on the background/context in order to avoid any influence on the discussion.

Margret Ulrich


Go on, Margret,

Are we all wrong? Is this about health care, not just health?

Regards,
Gerard


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RHELLER
United States
Local time: 20:55
French to English
+ ...
#2 but... May 27, 2005

I don't understand why you posted this in the forums. We have English kudoz to handle these questions. Context is required.

The vision for more health."
I second my colleagues...more health makes no sense whatsoever. If I were an English teacher and that was in a composition or a speech, the student would get a bad grade. (sorry if I offended someone)


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John Bowden  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:55
German to English
Yes, but.... May 27, 2005

kevinburns wrote:

consider an election slogan (albeit for a communist party):
"our vision: more health, less wealth"

not grammatically correct but English all the same.

Kevin


This would jsut be an example of inaccurate usage!

Imagine a political party called the SDP (Socialist Dermatalogical Party), who are against grammar schools (in the UK sense!) and in favour of eradicating acne and other skin complaints (an odd manifesto I know, but have you read some of the real parties' manifestos??). Their slogan could be: "Less selection, more complexion" - but what they actually mean by this is: "We want *more attention paid* to skin care and less to selective schooling" - they aren't intending to increase the number of people with complexions - everybody has "a complexxion", it's a matter of type (good/bad, fair/dark etc).
Similarly, everyone *has* "health" - there is nobody without health of some sort, waiting for somebody to come along and give them some - what they might need is *good* or *better* health!

It reminds me of the comment you sometimes hear whne it's raining - "There's alot of weather about lately, isn't there?"!


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MMUlr  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:55
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Background and Thanks! Jun 1, 2005

Gerard de Noord wrote:

MMUlr wrote:

I don't want to give more details on the phrases or on the background/context in order to avoid any influence on the discussion.

Margret Ulrich


Go on, Margret,

Are we all wrong? Is this about health care, not just health?



Hello Gerard, and also hello Rita,

I know, starting this discussion in the Linguistics forum is maybe surprising, but: there has been already a kudoz question round on this slogan (you say 'slogan' in case of a company "Claim"?), and I thought this Forum would be a better place for discussions about the two versions ... From the Kudoz answers it became quite clear that it must be "better health" in English for "mehr Gesundheit" (original German: "Die Idee für mehr Gesundheit.").

The background of my forum entry was that the company in question (manufacturer of dietary food) later on and suddenly fell in love with suggestion No. 1 - from a well-known German advertising agency, confirming that this was selected with the support of English native speakers. I wondered whether this could be really true !! and wanted to collect comments on the two variants by native speakers who are able to judge them.

I want to add:

1. No. 2 is IMO a grammatically correct version, not the ultimate and ideal solution for this translation, I know that.

2. Usually I don't work on translations from German to English, rather I am an employee of the company and was interested in the task of creating an appropriate English version of the slogan (meant for future international presentation).

3. It is my hope that the collection of comments on this issue will be convincing enough to maybe change the mind of the company managers ... ?? -

and, finally, I want to thank everybody here at this Proz forum, who participated in the discussion, very much for their enthusiasm and support

Have a nice day all of you,
Margret

[Edited at 2005-06-01 12:20]


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