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Linux: your experience?
Thread poster: Yolande Haneder
Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to French
+ ...
Apr 24, 2007

Hi!

I would be keen in learning Linux and I have a few questions:

1. How did you learn the commands? Is there a tool on the Internet to learn (or Unix?)

2. Specific to Ubuntu (without virtual PC):
When installing Ubuntu on a specific partition, Ubuntu installing software is destroying Windows command to be able to boot by itself. Windows is thus corrupted (in another partition!!!). When reinstalling Windows, you loose the boot function of Linux thus being unable to start it again. How did you come round it?(Markus is still thinking about it too)

3. From a translation agency point of view: which are the best software to use?

Thank you for any possible input


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Mulyadi Subali  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 02:45
English to Indonesian
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my noob experience... Apr 24, 2007

1. i learn the commands from books. but most linux distros are now more noob-friendly, so you can just do stuffs as you would with other operating systems, i.e. drag and drop, clicks.
2. i haven't installed ubuntu. my experience with other distros, i.e. suse, mepis, fedora, for dual-boot it is better for you to separate/make specific partitions for windows and linux. i usually make three, i.e. windows, linux, and data in fat32. i choose fat32 for the data file system, as it allows you to read and write while in either os. and it should be better to install windows first, then linux.
3. as for translation, i tried heartsome suite with fedora, and it ran similar to its windows version. haven't tried omegat with linux though, but should be the same.


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:45
Member (2006)
English to Russian
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From my modest experience Apr 24, 2007

Yolande Haneder wrote:
1. How did you learn the commands? Is there a tool on the Internet to learn (or Unix?)


This tool is console You type man or info . Or just consult the documentation.

2. Specific to Ubuntu (without virtual PC):
When installing Ubuntu on a specific partition, Ubuntu installing software is destroying Windows command to be able to boot by itself.


You're not specific enough though. I've tried Ubuntu 5.10 and currently am with Kubuntu 7.04. I did not loose Windows, but, unfortunately, (K)Ubuntu insists on being the default boot option. You'll have to edit the grub boot options file (normally, it's /boot/grub/menu.lst). Become root or sudo to do that.

3. From a translation agency point of view: which are the best software to use?


I'm afraid, there's nothing "best" on Linux, because the choice is quite limited. Consult Marc Prior's page:
http://www.linuxfortranslators.org/linux/linux.html


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 22:45
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
I can boot both Apr 24, 2007

I installed Ubuntu on a laptop. on startup I can press F12 and can decide, if I want to start Windosw or Ubuntu.
Unfortunately Ubuntu does not recognise my Wlan, so I have no practical experience.
Cheers
Heinrich


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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ubuntu Apr 24, 2007

esperantisto wrote:

This tool is console You type man or info . Or just consult the documentation.



I am playing around. My husband keeps telling me that I have to get grips of unix to be able to understand Linux (although they improved much lately). I have to learn the basic commands to open or save. I will look around for a book.

2. Specific to Ubuntu (without virtual PC):
When installing Ubuntu on a specific partition, Ubuntu installing software is destroying Windows command to be able to boot by itself.


I just have Ubuntu 7.04. We gave a specific partition for Linux for the root. Like "on windows terms", Windows has C: and D: and Linux K: and L: (just as an example because Windows does not recognize the linux partitions).
We did install it and everything went fine, when starting I had been asked to select between Ubuntu and Windows. The problem was when starting windows, a dll. file from windows was corrupted and windows would not start.
We tried to go to linux to open the windows partition (that linux recognize) and manually save again the needed file from a USB from another computer. Then I was been told that I did not get the right to save on the windows partition from Linux.
At the moment we reinstalled windows (from start I have now the choice between Windows and Windows) and are waiting for the image software we ordered to try again (we are going to make an image of windows first).


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to English
+ ...
Linux: your experience? Apr 24, 2007

Yolande Haneder wrote:

1. How did you learn the commands? Is there a tool on the Internet to learn (or Unix?)


I bought two hefty books (both German): "Das große Buch (Linux)" from Data Becker and "Linux - die User-Referenz" from MITP. Both were very helpful.

You will probably find that you don't need to learn many commands as such, or possibly any at all. Lots of things can be done from the command line and it is sometimes useful to do so, but you will probably find GUI (graphical user interface) applications for most or all the tasks you need.

Different command-line functions, commands and applications have different ways of providing their help information. "man" has already been mentioned: the command to list the files in the current directory, for example, is "ls", so "man ls" calls up the help (the manual) for ls. This is all very well, but you have to know of course in the first place that "ls" is the command for listing files in a directory, so knowing "man" on its own will not be enough.

Some command-line applications output the help when you input the command on its own. pdftohtml, for example, converts pdf files to html, but if you just type in pdftohtml and return, it will output the help. The help for Java is obtained with java -help (as it probably is on Windows as well). You are probably thinking that these are applications in their own right and not "Linux commands", but the distinction is not quite as clear-cut as it is on Windows.

There is almost certainly a list of the main Linux commands somewhere on the Internet. A good place to ask would be the Linux for Translators user group.

I recommend buying a good book on Linux though because it is not just a matter of learning different commands - which, as I say, you probably won't have to do much of anyway. It is also a matter of learning different concepts, structures, and approaches. For example, there are no drive letters in Linux. The desktop environment (probably KDE or GNOME) will also be quite different to what you are used to in Windows, with new concepts such as multiple virtual windows.

When installing Ubuntu on a specific partition, Ubuntu installing software is destroying Windows command to be able to boot by itself. Windows is thus corrupted (in another partition!!!). When reinstalling Windows, you loose the boot function of Linux thus being unable to start it again.


I have never used Ubuntu so I can't provide specific advice, but as a general comment, there are at least three ways of dual-booting.

1. You can install a boot manager. This is the normal procedure, and most Linux distributions include a boot manager so that Linux can share the PC with Windows. The whole point of a boot manager is that you first boot the boot manager, then boot whichever operating system you prefer. One or other of the available operating systems may be the default, but obviously, only one at most can boot automatically.

Normally, if you want to use this option you will have to install Windows first, since Windows does not like sharing a PC with another operating system and will try to grab it all for itself (at least, this used to be the case - it may have changed in the last five years).

2. You install two hard drives, one with Linux, the other with Windows. (The "foolproof" way to do this is to put one drive in physically, then install the operating system; then take it out and insert the other drive, and install the other operating system.) With both drives installed at the same time, you can choose in the BIOS which drive the computer is to be booted from. This may or may not be convenient - it depends upon the BIOS. Some BIOS have a convenient command which you can select just by pressing one key during the boot process to determine which drive the computer is to boot from.

3. You install a removable drive rack, install Linux on one drive and Windows on another (see above), then you simply insert the drive with the operating system you want to use into the drive rack before switching on the computer.

With dual-boot systems, you need to consider whether and how you are going to access the same data by both systems. With solution 2., for example, you can put your data (your translations etc.) on the Windows drive, and the Linux installation will also be able to access them. (As far as I know, the opposite isn't true - Windows can't access a Linux file system. Linux may also only be able to access certain types of Windows file systems - I am not sure about this.) Or you can put data to be accessed by both systems on an external drive, or on a USB stick.

3. From a translation agency point of view: which are the best software to use?


Unlike Windows, Linux is all about choice, so there is no simple answer. You have to decide for yourself. I recommend that you try the following though:

- Crossover Office (so that you can run Microsoft Office, and also Wordfast if you wish)
- OpenOffice.org (make sure that you get the latest version, and get all the language proofing modules that you need)
- OmegaT and Heartsome (try both, Heartsome is not free but there is a demonstration version)
- bitext2tmx (alignment tool)
- Acrobat Reader (get the latest version)
- Firefox or Opera

For more detailed information, see the Linux for Translators resource pages already referred to.

HTH,
Marc


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Luca Ruella  Identity Verified
United States
Member (2005)
English to Italian
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CAT Tools Apr 24, 2007

Has anybody managed to run SDLX, Trados 2006 or Transit under Linux using WINE or similar programs?

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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Trados Apr 24, 2007

I once asked one of my local representative for Trados if they were planning to do something for people wishing to use Linux.

They said that they were not planning this but an emulator should work.

I however think that if you want to use trados with an emulator, you must have a quite powerful computer (since you will be running Linux + Windows + Trados (also quite greedy in space) + maybe word.

I think being able to use Tag Editor for Word documents is a good chance for Trados as a standalone software, thus in the future being able to use it without office.

Once I get my image and get a new trial with ubuntu, I plan to install the following software: http://www.winehq.com/
You don't have to install windows to run the software.

However I am decided to learn to use linux, even if I have to reboot my computer for Trados and some other softwares.

[Edited at 2007-04-24 11:14]


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Sonja Tomaskovic  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:45
English to German
+ ...
No Apr 24, 2007

Luca Ruella wrote:

Has anybody managed to run SDLX, Trados 2006 or Transit under Linux using WINE or similar programs?


I tested the latest SDLX Trados version, and it does not run with Crossover. It will probably not run with wine either.

Sonja


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:45
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
Weird Apr 24, 2007

Yolande Haneder wrote:

The problem was when starting windows, a dll. file from windows was corrupted and windows would not start.


Linux is unlikely to blame. Linux cannot basically do something on a Windows partition. In fact, none of the distros I've ever tried did anything wrong, they all peacefully co-existed with Windows.

We tried to go to linux to open the windows partition (that linux recognize) and manually save again the needed file from a USB from another computer.


Do you have an NT-based Windows? Then right, you won't write anything on an NTFS partition.

Yolande, from what you say I conclude that you are very inexperienced with Linux. So, I'd recommend against Ubuntu as the first distro. I strongly suggest (open)SUSE (I think, Marc would second me, right? ) or Mandriva. Many people would also suggest Fedora, but I just haven't tried it out.

openSUSE is really fine in terms of usability. Unfortunately, all of a sudden, there appeared a problem with my USB flash stick: openSUSE quit recognizing it (after almost half a year of normal operation!), and I just could not get it work again. So, I'm trying out Kubuntu, but, honestly, openSUSE still seems a better choice to me.


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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Out of my inexperience Apr 24, 2007

I try what I first the hands on get.
I don't think I would start with SUSE. At least Ubuntu seems to be delivered as a whole package and I don't want to start with individual installations. I heard about SUSE being much more complicated to install.
I have XP and I can tell you Ubuntu did corrupt the windows partition. Wether you believe me or not is another problem.

We will follow marc's advice, install them on 2 disks and disable the one and then the other through the BIOS on the respectives installations.


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to English
+ ...
Linux: your experience? Apr 24, 2007

Yolande Haneder wrote:

I try what I first the hands on get.
I don't think I would start with SUSE. At least Ubuntu seems to be delivered as a whole package and I don't want to start with individual installations. I heard about SUSE being much more complicated to install.


I don't know what you mean by "individual installations". SUSE also comes as a complete package, and in fact the two main reasons I prefer it are that it's easy to install, and that it comes with a huge amount of software - 7 CDs, if I remember correctly.

Having said that, I understand that Ubuntu is also easy to install, and I believe it provides full access to the Debian repository, so it should also offer a large choice of software. The main thing to remember about installation, of whichever distribution, is that if you want it to be painless, make sure that your software is compatible beforehand, and buy new components if necessary.

Marc


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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Compatibility Apr 24, 2007

Dear Marc,

Thank you for your advice. So far as I tested it, there was no problem with my hardware. Everything worked well, I could get online, open an old word file. I played much around until I noticed that I could not open Windows anymore (when I had a translation with Trados due).

It seems that there had been a problem with the partition manager at the beginning where the software had to read the available disk space to give space for it. We attributed space only from a spare partition so Windows should not have been affected but it might have been- anyway it is also written to make a backup of our disk before doing it so not much harm had been done - we already had everything on an external drive.

I have not seriously had a thought about the different versions. I had problems with my Windows (first an automatic update that turned wrong, then the antivirus deleting files and my computer getting some kind of computer Alzheimer (which meant after every passing day Windows would recognize less and less software, devices or drives - mostly the small ones - and at the end freezing by restart), I wanted to get out of Windows and took the most locally known version.

In a way I had to reinstall Windows anyway but the problem with my computer cured me of even thinking taking Vista with automatic updates and an uncontrollable internal antivirus that delete files without telling you. I give me 3 years to learn Linux to take a cold jump once the support ends.

Yolande

[Edited at 2007-04-24 17:48]


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:45
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
Who told you this nonsense? Apr 24, 2007

OpenSUSE is not harder to install than Ubuntu, moreover, it gives you more control on the process. At least, OpenSUSE explicitely advised me to set up boot options - unlike (K)Ubuntu, that shamelessly installed itself as the default.

But you're not going to just install it, you'll need to set up the system and finally to work in it, right? SUSE's Yast2 (setup and control utility) is a really marvellous thing with a rich set of options. Inter alia, it presents a fine GUI-based setup for grub, whilst in Kubuntu I had to to manually edit /boot/grub/menu.lst.

OpenSUSE has a really big choice of software, and you can have it as a single DVD (plus a CD with additional languages and an optional CD with some more goodies - I did not even need the latter).

I've started with OpenSUSE on Marc's advise and I have to say, this was the FIRST distro, which made me feel more comfortable than Windows. If not that problem with my USB drive, I'd be there so far. Try it.


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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:45
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Now really confused Apr 24, 2007

There are at least 4 or 5 versions of Linux. So far My choice had been between Kunbuntu und Unbuntu, taking Unbutu as I heard about it.

I am married to a sotware develloper being very cynical about Linux being an headache to install (in his experience many many years ago) - got quite surprise with ubuntu. At least my problem is not the installation - he is doing it and can restore things if I bring it to crash.

My only problem is that I want something easy to manipulate because I don't have his computer knowledge (from far!!!).


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