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Finnegans Wake vertaald naar het Nederlands
Thread poster: Marijke Mayer

Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:04
Dutch to English
+ ...
Apr 13, 2002

Voor de Nederlandse vertalers:



Lees de NRC-recentie van 12 april 2002 over de vertaling van Erik Bindervoet en Robbert-Jan Henkes, geschreven door de alom geroemde James Joyce. Helaas is deze recentie op dit moment nog niet online op de nrc-site te vinden. \"Een oceaan van verklankte waanzin\"

Dit werk gold lange tijd als onvertaalbaar, maar ik vind dat het uiteindelijk toch gelukt is. Het werk wordt in twee talen aangeboden.



Zie en geniet!



How many goes it I wonder I washed it?

Hoeveel keer ik \'t al niet heb gewassen.



I know by heart the places he like to saale, deddurty devil!

Ik kan de plekken waar hij goorloopt wel dromen, den dommelse does!



Scorching my hand and starving my famine to make his private linen public.

En ik mijn handen maar runneweren en m\'n honger zitten noden om zijn vuile was uiter waard te hangen.



Wallop it well with your battle and clean it.

Sla d\'r op en spaarn de spaan niet.



My wrists are wrusty ribbing the mouldaw stains.

Mijn polsen zijn strang van het rijnigen van de schimmoldauw.



And the dneepers of wet and the gangres of sin in it!

En het zit vol met denieperig vocht en euvraat van zonde!



What was it he did a tail at all on Animal Sendai?

Wat heeftie staart eigenlijk uitgehalld die Animal Sendai!



And how long was he under loch and neagh?

En hoe lang loch hij in de lek achter sloe en kendel?



It was put in the newses what he did, nices and priers, the King fierceas Humphrey, with illysus distilling, exploits and all.

Het stonk in alle kranten wat hij gedaan had, in gluren en kuren, de Koning forsas Hempfries, met klammenstiele stokerye en op sterke waterfeiten.



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-13 10:02 ]


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Aurora Humarán  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
Heineken... (that´s all I can say that a Dutch will certainly understand!) Apr 13, 2002

I think you are talking about translations of Joyce´s book...I´m looking for it!

Will you please contact me?!?!?!?

a_humaran@hotmail.com (home)

aurora_humaran@providian.com (work)

Buenos Aires - Argentina

(Just to touch your heart in case you like Maxima....)



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Roomy Naqvy  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 15:34
English to Hindi
+ ...
Ask Joyce or Richard Ellmann!!! Apr 13, 2002

When Joyce was working on \'Work in Progress\' and he has already publshed the Anna Livia Plurabelle fragment and someone got it translated into French and showed it to him and he said, \"That\'s how I wanted it!!\". To Joyce it was clear that any scholar who studied him would have spend a lifetime. Richard Ellmann was one such man.



Though I do not know Dutch at all, I have studied languages professionally to some extent including wee bit of Chomsky and certainly Bloomfield, I can sense that your Dutch translations would probably make Joyce feel happy.



It would be fun to have a Dutch translation of Finnegans Wake if it\'s not available at all. Ulysses got Joyce Virginia Woolf as a good friend. Finnegans Wake alienated most of them. Wake, truly based on Giambattista Vico, was the culmination of Joyce\'s intellectual prowess.



Well, I think a friend of mine, Evert Deloof-Sys, a budding poet as well as professional linguist, would certainly be able to help in this matter.



To be fair to Joyce, he himself did not know the outrage that Wake could have produced. If I recollect well, Joyce did most of his work in Trieste in Italy.. I went to Porto Santo Stefano last year, courtesy ProZ, and saw the maps.. and well, Trieste is surrounded by the lower Alps on one hand and the Mediterranean on the other... where else in the world could you find such a place... a grand mountain range and a magnificent, serene ocean.



Trieste had to inspire Joyce...which is why Stephen Dedalus in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man wanted \"to forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race\". [I\'m quoting from memory.]
[addsig]


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Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:04
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Apologies to the international community Apr 13, 2002

I put this message on for the Dutch community to draw their attention to the excellent review the translation the two Dutch translators of Finnigans Wake by James Joyce received in a Dutch quality paper, the NRC, as I didn\'t think that people who do not normally speak or read Dutch, would be able to understand this.



Seeing that there is some international interest after all, I will be glad to continue in English.



Yes, indeed, Finnegans Wake was purported to be untranslatable. However, these two Dutch translators really managed to do it, in my humble opinion at least! I\'m sure it will be pure joy to read. This book has just been published in the Netherlands, so other than the provided sample, I haven\'t been able to read it yet. I therefore copied this sample that was printed in the review for you all to see. Joyce\'s heirs wanted the English to appear alongside the Dutch translation, which in my estimation really adds to the book.



I suppose you will be asking me how these translators did it. I think this will be a subject for nary a meeting.



One way was to draw parallels to existing Dutch sayings, to mention just one way. There is a combination of the joy that comes with the jolt of recognition when you read it; the feeling is difficult to describe. But I\'m going to try. I will translate the appropriate parts of the full-page review according to the questions you will ask me. I will start with the first line of the sample:



How many goes it I wonder I washed it?

Hoeveel keer ik \'t al niet heb gewassen.



To me it is an almost emotional confirmation that the English and Dutch languages are very close, which they are of course. Joyce says: \'How many goes\'. This may be colloguial English or Irish, or Joyce would probably have dreamed it up himself, or thought that he had, but in Dutch \'keer\' suits the \'goes\' to a tee. Of course, in English one can say \'go\', in one go, although not in this particular English grammatical structure. In this case, this sentence is perfect colloguial Dutch though: a lament of a wife or mother exclaiming, fed up, that she has washed the garment all too many times. Beautiful translation. But it gets more difficult up ahead!



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Marijke Mayer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:04
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The first translation version has indeed been published in the Netherlands Apr 13, 2002

Thanks for your reply of a kindred soul. Although I have heard of many of the authors you quoted, I have not read any of them, but one day I will. Thank you for pointing these out. I personally don\'t think that James Joyce can be an exception, as I know many people who make up their own language. Indeed my American husband and me, a Dutch native speaker, came up with a shared language that is only understood in our family, and I know many others who have invented word that carry meanings only known to a close circle, or who are using common words that have taken on an additional meaning in their own circle. But to come back to Joyce, he uses words very cleverly that a larger public can understand what he means. But he is not alone by any means, also Lewis Carroll made up his own words.



Here is one link for the Dutch and Flemish contingency: http://boekrecensies.nrc.nl/recensie?text=Finnegans%20Wake&FDOC=0&SORT=presence&BN_NUGI=*&REC=a363e59653e6-9023462270

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-13 20:44 ]


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Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 12:04
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
Thanks for the info, Marijke Apr 14, 2002

I\'ll certainly read the translation of Finnegans\'Wake, maybe not because I was flabbergasted when I first tried to read it many years ago.

By the way, I couldn\'t. Didn\'t understand a thing.

I really thought -and still think- Joyce was exaggerating here.

But I did read his magnificent Ulysses in both English and Dutch (yes, the translation by Paul Claes and Mon Nys - very commendable).



In short, yes, I\'m really wondering how the translators handled/treated the original text...and will let you know in due time.






[addsig]


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Aurora Humarán  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
May I have your "Dutch" attention, please?.... Thank you... Apr 14, 2002

1) Remember your future Queen was born in my country... je je je!



2) I have a pen-friend (this sounds quite old fashioned these days, doesn´t i?) with whom I have been writing letters (now the letters have become emails) for almost 20 years. In 2000 I had the pleasure of meeting him in person and of VISITING YOUR COUNTRY. I fell in love with Holland the moment I arrived. Your people are great, surprisingly \"warm\", so kind, so polite, and three kisses ... Oh my! As Brazilians...



3) Joyce: if any of you happen to understand Spanish please have a look at my posting speaking specifically about this book and about this \"type\" of literature.

I haven´t been able to find a Spanish translation of the so-called most untranslatable book ever.

My posting includes an opinion completely against this type of literature and it is an interesting view although I do not share it.

I did read (and suffer) the Ulyses when I was studying at Universidad de Buenos Aires.

And I tried to read Finnegans Wake and found it very hard. However, I´m more than interested in seeing how the translator(s) have managed to \"handle\" this \"unhandleable\" book.

Regards from Argentina

Aurora Humarán



http://www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&eid_c=16610&topic=1930&forum=22&8



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