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Off topic: translation of a sporadic metaphor
Thread poster: Ivan Petryshyn

Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
+ ...
Nov 17, 2007

PLZ, WELCOME ARE YOUR OPINIONS ON THE TRANSLATION OF A SPORADIC METAPHOR

'obrazek zme,nczonej s'wientos'ci' (Pol.).

' kartynka zmuchenoyi s'vyatosty' (Ukr.),

' lik izmuchyennoy s'vyatos'ti' (Russ.;

' an image of a fatigued sainthood' (Engl.),

' un rirtatto della santita' affatigata' ?

IVAN PETRYSHYN , CHICAGO 11/17/07


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:51
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Martyred? Nov 18, 2007

I'm starting from the Russian. "Fatigued" in English doesn't sound likely. I should think "измученной" here is based on the root word "мука", meaning torture, so the English should be "An image of tortured sainthood", or "An image of martyred sainthood" (преданной мученической смерти).

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TranslateThis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
How about Kudoz? Nov 18, 2007

Dear Ivan,

I couldn't help but notice that in your Proz profile you mention English to Polish as one of your working language pairs. Do you really translate to Polish? The reason I am wondering is the Polish phrase you posted:

'obrazek zme,nczonej s'wientos'ci' (Pol.)

I wouldn't mind helping you, but you need to be more specific as to the meaning you want to convey. Asking this question in Kudoz in the corresponding language pairs and indicating which phrase you need translated might be a more effective strategy. Is the source phrase in Russian, Ukrainian, or ...?

Best,

TT


[Edited at 2007-11-18 14:51]


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 20:51
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
It would really be helpful to know the original version Nov 18, 2007

Jack Doughty wrote:

I'm starting from the Russian. "Fatigued" in English doesn't sound likely. I should think "измученной" here is based on the root word "мука", meaning torture, so the English should be "An image of tortured sainthood", or "An image of martyred sainthood" (преданной мученической смерти).


That's interesting. I can't say much about the Russian version, but the Polish one (which should read: "obrazek zmęczonej świętości" with proper spelling) definitely refers to fatigue or being tired - even if the root word "męka" also means torture. In this case there is a subtle difference: 'zmęczony' - tired, 'zamęczony' - martyred.

It would be indeed helpful to know which is the original phrase and which are translations.

Magda


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carla melis
Local time: 20:51
English to Italian
the one in Italian Nov 19, 2007

the last sentence: 'un ritratto della santità affaticata', is in Italian (with some spelling mistakes) and it means 'a portrait of the tired sainthood'.
Keep in mind that 'Sua Santità' also refers to the Pope.

Carla


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Dmitrii
English
TRANSLATION OF A SPORADIC METAPHOR Nov 21, 2007

In Russian "Obraz porugannoi sviatosti" sounds better than "Lic izmuchennoi sviatosti". But can sainthood ("sviatost") be tortured (a saint can be can be but sainthood...)?

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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 20:51
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
on "muka" and derivatives Nov 23, 2007

'obrazek zme,nczonej s'wientos'ci' (Pol.).

' kartynka zmuchenoyi s'vyatosty' (Ukr.),

' lik izmuchyennoy s'vyatos'ti' (Russ.;


muka torment; pangs pl; (napor) pains
pl; (težava) difficulty; prestajati ~e to
be in torment; peklenske ~e torments
pl (ali pains pl) of hell; excruciating
torment; smrtne ~e death throes pl;
pangs pl of death; last agony

[Grad SL>EN vocabulary]

...so tormented is much closer to the intended meaning. And of course, fatigued / afattigata simply suck. A lot of saints have gone through torment and pain. I dont know of anybody achieving sainthood by being tired and fed up.

Regards

Vito

[Urejeno ob 2007-11-23 07:51]


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
not quite Nov 24, 2007

thae word 'tormented' is OK, but the metaphore has been created (by me) under quite humoristic circumstances, in a humor and friendly context:
so' muka' or 'martyrdom' has nothing to do with the 'SPORADIC METAPHORE', 'stomlennoyi, zmuchenoyi' ... is OK, 'izmuchennoy', but not 'porugannoy' as one suggested - the latter has quite a different connotation.
Grateful,
Ivan


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
response Nov 24, 2007

Jack Doughty wrote:

I'm starting from the Russian. "Fatigued" in English doesn't sound likely. I should think "измученной" here is based on the root word "мука", meaning torture, so the English should be "An image of tortured sainthood", or "An image of martyred sainthood" (преданной мученической смерти).

please, mind- Russian is for me a near-native language, actually, the context was humoristic and first pronounced in Polish, as the conversation was held in that language- 'tortured' - rejected. Ivan


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
the sense Nov 24, 2007

TranslateThis wrote:

Dear Ivan,

I couldn't help but notice that in your Proz profile you mention English to Polish as one of your working language pairs. Do you really translate to Polish? The reason I am wondering is the Polish phrase you posted:

'obrazek zme,nczonej s'wientos'ci' (Pol.)

I wouldn't mind helping you, but you need to be more specific as to the meaning you want to convey. Asking this question in Kudoz in the corresponding language pairs and indicating which phrase you need translated might be a more effective strategy. Is the source phrase in Russian, Ukrainian, or ...?

Best,

TT


[Edited at 2007-11-18 14:51]


the sense was humoristic- please, see the notes below
thank you, Ivan


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
ancora Dec 1, 2007

carla melis wrote:

the last sentence: 'un ritratto della santità affaticata', is in Italian (with some spelling mistakes) and it means 'a portrait of the tired sainthood'.
Keep in mind that 'Sua Santità' also refers to the Pope.

Carla


io vorrei scrivere la stessa cosa ancora (ho gia' spedito la risposta - e' stranamente scomparsa):
una parola puo' avere piu' che un significato, esser stata usata in un senso figurativo (un uso metaforico), avere una sfugatura umoristica - e' proprio il caso;
speravo che si saprebbe bene che una parola scritta con una minuscola non si usi come un titolo;
mi scusi, ma La Sua Santita' e' il titolo del Santo Padre (io Lo
rispetto profondamente, e prego come un cristiano) :
non avevo tempo per verificare degli sbagli - PERO' si sa anche bene : la parola fatiga , affatticata.
Saluti - non dobbiamo essere piu' saggi che si deve- Ivan


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
there is no 'muka' in the humoristic phrase Dec 1, 2007

Magda Dziadosz wrote:

Jack Doughty wrote:

I'm starting from the Russian. "Fatigued" in English doesn't sound likely. I should think "измученной" here is based on the root word "мука", meaning torture, so the English should be "An image of tortured sainthood", or "An image of martyred sainthood" (преданной мученической смерти).


That's interesting. I can't say much about the Russian version, but the Polish one (which should read: "obrazek zmęczonej świętości" with proper spelling) definitely refers to fatigue or being tired - even if the root word "męka" also means torture. In this case there is a subtle difference: 'zmęczony' - tired, 'zamęczony' - martyred.

It would be indeed helpful to know which is the original phrase and which are translations.

Magda


the matter is that the phrase/metaphore has been used humoristically and has nothing with the sense of 'martyrhood', or 'torture' - it's just a specific nomination of a tired lady who seems to be a very positive character; Russian is my second language and it's near-native;
best wishes , Ivan


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
strange, but it had been firstly pronounced in Polish Dec 1, 2007

TranslateThis wrote:

Dear Ivan,

I couldn't help but notice that in your Proz profile you mention English to Polish as one of your working language pairs. Do you really translate to Polish? The reason I am wondering is the Polish phrase you posted:

'obrazek zme,nczonej s'wientos'ci' (Pol.)

I wouldn't mind helping you, but you need to be more specific as to the meaning you want to convey. Asking this question in Kudoz in the corresponding language pairs and indicating which phrase you need translated might be a more effective strategy. Is the source phrase in Russian, Ukrainian, or ...?

Best,

TT


[Edited at 2007-11-18 14:51]


strange as it could be , but it had been pronounced firstly by me (my copyright) in Polish - humor, positive attitude and friendliness included
best wishes , Ivan


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
sorry: plz, don't misinterpret Dec 1, 2007

Dmitrii wrote:

In Russian "Obraz porugannoi sviatosti" sounds better than "Lic izmuchennoi sviatosti". But can sainthood ("sviatost") be tortured (a saint can be can be but sainthood...)?


the valancy of the evaluation in Russian 'porugannaya svyatost' ' has nothing to do with the humor involved:
a friendly, positive attitude towards a nice lady
sincerely, Ivan


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Ivan Petryshyn
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
yes, but then the humor is lost Dec 1, 2007

Vito Smolej wrote:

'obrazek zme,nczonej s'wientos'ci' (Pol.).

' kartynka zmuchenoyi s'vyatosty' (Ukr.),

' lik izmuchyennoy s'vyatos'ti' (Russ.;


muka torment; pangs pl; (napor) pains
pl; (težava) difficulty; prestajati ~e to
be in torment; peklenske ~e torments
pl (ali pains pl) of hell; excruciating
torment; smrtne ~e death throes pl;
pangs pl of death; last agony

[Grad SL>EN vocabulary]

...so tormented is much closer to the intended meaning. And of course, fatigued / afattigata simply suck. A lot of saints have gone through torment and pain. I dont know of anybody achieving sainthood by being tired and fed up.

Regards

Vito

[Urejeno ob 2007-11-23 07:51]


if to translate it this way, the humor and the friendly attitude involved are lost for good - unacceptable, I believe
sorry, best wishes ,
Ivan


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