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Simple localisation tool, Virtaal, take 2
Thread poster: Samuel Murray

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:18
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Feb 5, 2009

G'day everyone

You may remember I menioned the localisation program Virtaal a while ago, in this thread:
http://www.proz.com/forum/localization/118252-simple_localisation_translation_tool_virtaal.html

Well, version 0.3 of Virtaal has just been released. As I haven't been as closely involved in this version's development as I have the previous, I'm keen to hear from everyone what they think of it, what behaviours they can discover and which functions seem to work for them.

Get it here:
http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/virtaal/index
(it works on Windows, MacOSX and Linux)

If you want to give it a try, go Help > Tutorial. It then opens a PO file that is intended for teaching amateur translators a little bit about translation.

The biggest improvement of version 0.3 over version 0.2, is probably the addition of translation memory. Basically there is a native TM (in an SQL-type database format) and then there are a variety of other TMs, such as the ability to connect to remote TMs, using TinyTM, using Google Translate's MT, and using Open-Tran's hodgepodge. These options don't all work out of the box, though, and I'd be interested to hear if ayone got it going. The TM will offer suggestions for empty and fuzzy segments by default. You can also query the TM for translated segments by pressing F9.

As previously, Virtaal can open and edit PO, XLIFF, TMX, TBX, Wordfast TMs, Qt TS and Qt QPH files. It can also open MO and QM files directly. It is apparently also possible to do POT updates from within the GUI, though I haven't tried it myself.

Various other improvements include: Find/replace with case-sensitivity, regular expressions and "replace all". There is a full-screen mode (F11). XML syntax is coloured, as are certain escaped characters. Language selection is friendlier. There are now menus with most shortcuts in them, in case you don't want to discover by doing. If you have Linux, you'll have spell-checking. There is autocorrection and autocompletion of sorts. You can open files from the commandline if you want.

If you want to hack it, find the three files plugins.ini, tm.ini and virtaal.ini on your computer... then you can change eg the number of fuzzy matches and the fuzzy match threshhold. Oh, and finally, the GUI is available in a number of languages.

I look forward to your responses.


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Lexicae
Local time: 23:18
English to French
+ ...
Importing existing TMs in Virtaal Feb 10, 2009

Hi Samuel,

Further to one of our clients' request, we are looking into Virtaal for a large localization project.

It seems quite straightforward, but our main concern is how to import an existing Trados TM (converted into TMX) into Virtaal.

Also, do you know if there's a way to analyze the files (showing 100% matches, repetitions, fuzzies, no matches).

Thanks a lot for your help,

Fabienne

[Edited at 2009-02-10 12:29 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:18
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Some answers to Lexicae Feb 10, 2009

Lexicae wrote:
...our main concern is how to import an existing Trados TM (converted into TMX) into Virtaal.


There is currently no formal way of importing external TMs to Virtaal's internal TM or using them as a secondary local TM. However, you can add the contents of any fully or partially translated file (including TMX) to Virtaal's local memory using a little trick. Simply open the TMX file in Virtaal, make a change to the first entry, press ENTER, and save. Virtaal will then have added all segments from the TMX file to its own local TM.

I wrote a few lines about privacy issues on the Virtaal wiki, but my comments relate also to the use of TM:
http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/virtaal/using_virtaal#virtaal_s_local_tm

Also, do you know if there's a way to analyze the files (showing 100% matches, repetitions, fuzzies, no matches).


This is currently not implemented and I can't think of a trick or hack to do it either.

==

If you have a set of PO files (I presume this is your source file format) and you have the Trados TMX, you can use pot2po from the Translate Toolkit with the "tm" option and the "s" option (for "similarity") to dummy translate the files, and then use pocount to generate statistics, but the statistics won't be nearly as comprehensive as the common Trados stats.

Here's how anyway:

Put your PO files in a directory called FOO. Rename their file extensions all from .po to .pot. Then run this:

pot2po --tm=yourfile.tmx -i FOO -o FOOtranslated

And then do this:

pocount FOOtranslated > count.txe

to see how many are translated and for how many did the fuzzy threshold apply. The default fuzzy threshold is 75%. Try it with 65 using:

pot2po --tm=yourfile.tmx -s 65 -i FOO -o FOOtranslated


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Lexicae
Local time: 23:18
English to French
+ ...
Further queries Feb 11, 2009

Thanks a lot for your replies, Samuel.

However, we have some further queries:

1) When we open the PO file, and then the tmx file from the PO file, it bugs.
How do you open the PO file with the tmx file in the background?
How to be sure the entries in the TM are taken into account by the local Virtaal TM?

2) Do you know if there's an option similar to the Trados "concordance search" (i.e. select a specific term in a sentence and look for it in the TM)? (there is the very useful F3 key, but it only searches for the words within the file and not in the TM)

3) Regarding your trick on the statistics, we created a "FOO" directory, renamed the file extension from .po to .pot, but how do you actually proceed to "run pot2po --tm=yourfile.tmx -i FOO -o FOOtranslated"?

Thanks a lot,

Fabienne


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:18
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Some further replies Feb 12, 2009

Lexicae wrote:
1) When we open the PO file, and then the tmx file from the PO file, it bugs.


What do you mean, "it bugs"? Try opening Virtaal by itself (from the Start Menu), then open the TMX file in it, then make one change, and save the file (under a new name or under the existing name, doesn't matter). Can you do that? Or does Virtaal refuse to open your TMX file? If so, what is the error message?

How do you open the PO file with the tmx file in the background? ... How to be sure the entries in the TM are taken into account by the local Virtaal TM?


Well, the only way to be absolutely sure, is to create a small PO file that contains one or two of the source segments occurring in the TMX file, and then see if matches are served. That is the way I'd do the test with any CAT tool.

If you want to be absolutely sure that no other segments are present in the TM before you merge the TMX with it, simply delete the tm.db file (the local TM file) -- it will be recreated automatically.

2) Do you know if there's an option similar to the Trados "concordance search" (i.e. select a specific term in a sentence and look for it in the TM)? (there is the very useful F3 key, but it only searches for the words within the file and not in the TM)


This is not yet implemented. I'm told that version 0.4 will focus on adding glossaries and terminology, so concordance searches will probably not be available for a while.

One thing you can do, is to open the TMX file in a new instance of Virtaal, so that you can search that file. The only downside is that you can't search translations that you've just recently created -- you can then only search that particular TMX file.

3) Regarding your trick on the statistics, we created a "FOO" directory, renamed the file extension from .po to .pot, but how do you actually proceed to "run pot2po --tm=yourfile.tmx -i FOO -o FOOtranslated"?


I'm not sure what you mean. You need the Translate Toolkit and then you need to type the "pot2po..." line in a commandline window.

https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=91920&package_id=97082


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opolt  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:18
English to German
+ ...
Now testing May 15, 2010

Hi Samuel,

just to let you know that I've only recently started to test Virtaal 0.5.2 on Ubuntu for my own purposes. It sure looks like a very interesting program with potential, and could become a serious option in the future -- even though I'm a bit wary of those all-in-one programs and personally still prefer to work in source or spezialized editors (like poedit). At least I hope the multiple file format approach doesn't turn out to be a hindrance (i.e., the number of bugs being high due to the number of file formats).

Anyway, the only thing that I have noticed so far is that the main window remains completely blocked if there's no network connection. Otherwise it's fine so far. If you like, I'll get back to you some time in the future after having attempted something serious with the program.

Also, it's very nice to be able to talk to one of the developers here in the forum -- Don't worry though, I won't flood you with bug reports

Cheers,

- opolt


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:18
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I'm not a developer of Virtaal May 15, 2010

opolt wrote:
Also, it's very nice to be able to talk to one of the developers here in the forum...


For the record, I'm not on the Virtaal team of developers.

Anyway, the only thing that I have noticed so far is that the main window remains completely blocked if there's no network connection. Otherwise it's fine so far. If you like, I'll get back to you some time in the future after having attempted something serious with the program.


If you want, you can submit a bug report at:
http://bugs.locamotion.org/


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opolt  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:18
English to German
+ ...
I'm sorry, Samuel ... May 15, 2010

... for the misunderstanding -- though you did say that you had been closely involved in the development of one of the previous versions. But anyway there's no problem as far as I am concerned, we can leave it at that

Cheers,

-- opolt


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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 23:18
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
why not OmegaT? May 16, 2010

>> opolt

i) it handles TMX per default, so any export from Trados can be used (my own experience).
ii) it handles PO files as well, and even better, it handles...
iii) all kinds of .properties, .dtd etc files, which usually (unnecessarily) end up in the po kettle

TM as central paradigm for any translational work has been with OmegaT since ages. Try it - it may spare you some hair loss.

Regards

smo


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:18
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Why not OmegaT? May 16, 2010

Vito Smolej wrote:
Why not OmegaT?


Well, this thread is about Virtaal, so that's why.

i) it handles TMX per default, so any export from Trados can be used (my own experience).


Virtaal handles TMX but also handles PO, XLIFF, WF TM and a few others, both as editing formats and as TM formats. OmegaT handles TMX only as TM format, not as editing format. OmegaT does handle PO as TM format, but only the fuzzy strings, in a way.

ii) it handles PO files as well, and even better, it handles...


OmegaT's PO handling is pretty good. Virtaal's is near perfect.

iii) all kinds of .properties, .dtd etc files, which usually (unnecessarily) end up in the po kettle.


True, but .properties and .dtd files aren't bilingual formats, so any process which requires bilingual files need to convert them (to PO, for example). Virtaal can't handle .properties and .dtd files as-they-are yet because Virtaal is a bilingual file editor.

TM as central paradigm for any translational work has been with OmegaT since ages. Try it - it may spare you some hair loss.


As long as your project does not contain multiple identical strings that require unique translations...


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opolt  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:18
English to German
+ ...
Virtaal vs. OmegaT May 16, 2010

Vito Smolej wrote:

>> opolt

i) it handles TMX per default, so any export from Trados can be used (my own experience).
ii) it handles PO files as well, and even better, it handles...
iii) all kinds of .properties, .dtd etc files, which usually (unnecessarily) end up in the po kettle

TM as central paradigm for any translational work has been with OmegaT since ages. Try it - it may spare you some hair loss.

Regards

smo


Thanks, Vito, for the tip -- though I'm already familiar with OmegaT. I think this shouldn't be about pitting one program against the other here. OmegaT is more mature and solid, that's true (though it has its own set of problems, mostly Java-related), but one should always use the best tool for the job. As far as Virtaal is concerned, I think in its current state the program is very much tailored to open source translations, where most work is done more or less ad hoc and by non-professionals, i.e., its strength is the simplicity of its interface.

Anyway, as someone whose main workhorse has been a Linux machine for many, many years now, I very much value that these tools are finally becoming available for the Windows deprived. OTOH, many file types are still best handled using a good text editor (maybe that's the reason why po is being abused, as you've correctly pointed out). -- That's just me though.

Cheers,

-- opolt


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