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Payment is not coming through or the outsourcer telling stories?
Thread poster: Andrei Yefimov

Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 07:02
English to Russian
+ ...
May 28, 2008

Hi all!
I am sorry if I'm reposting someone's topic but I've not found anything similar. The matter is that one of the agencies owes me X amount of money. The payment's been already delayed for almost a month however the outsourcer keep telling money was sent; he sent me pdf copy of payment details and the paper that states his account balance. Everything seems to be right but what I see is that money's not arrived yet. I've done everything I could from my end. I've contacted my branch bank, then the Head Office. The result's been the same: no trace of money. But it's impossible money has gone, all right! Money can not be delayed for so long unless some urgency comes up. I'd like to add that first time the outsourcer was sending money it was returned to him (as he claims) 'cause he made a mistake while indicating my account number. I believed that but now...He keep sending me some papers and suggests my calling to his bank. Unbelievable! Why on earth should I do this? He promised to provide me with pdf copy of the paper sealed by his bank. But how can I be sure it's not a fake? I have a feeling some amount of backtracking is going on:( I'd appreciate if someone could give me an advice. I look forward to you hearing from you! Thanks!
P.S. What I'm gonna do in the event of further delay. If the outsourcer keeps telling stories that can not be verified independently I'm gonna issue a warning, then post BB entry (after my entry this outsourcer is more likely to be banned from posting jobs on proz) and finally contact the direct client claiming my authorship rights for translation and saying I sue them along with the outsourcer for breaking authorship right untill the payment is cleared. Would that be wise?

Regards,
Andrei





[Edited at 2008-05-28 15:02]


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:02
English to German
+ ...
Call his bank - then you will get the answer. May 28, 2008

Anything else would be mere speculation. Banks screw up every day. My bank should make this their tag-line.

Your client seems to be very cooperative. Why else would they provide you with more and more papers, documents and information? (That's not naivete on my side -each time the clients sends you an additional document it will constitute additional fraud. Who of sound mind would do that?)

You didn't indicate from which country the money was sent. Depending on the country such transactions may take weeks.

The most hysterical mistake ever made by a client's bank: They sent me a 4-digit amount twice. It took me and the client several weeks to figure out where the money came from. "It's not ours!," they insisted at first. (I worked it off anyway).

I am sure everything will turn out fine. Don't lose a (hopefully) nice and good client over such an incident.

Best of luck, please keep us posted!


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Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 07:02
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your prompt reply, Nicole! May 28, 2008

Yes, I apologize for leaving this out. Money's been sent from Spain to Ukraine through an intermediary bank in the USA. Money transfer of that kind should not have taken longer than 48 hours, no? Monday was Memorial Day in the USA. But today is Wednesday and money was sent on Wednesday, May 21:( The outsourcer himself tells me about 48 hours and seems to be at a loss. The most annoying thing is that noone in my bank knows about where the hell money has gone to. The strange thing is that if there was a mistake the client's bank must have let him know about this, I guess. My bank insists on three options: 1- There was a mistake, money returned to the client. 2 - No mistake, money entered into your account. 3. The intermediary bank conducts an investigation on the matter (I highly doubt that).
It's been none of these three so far.
P.S. I hope I'll be able to settle this up without spoiling the relationships.
Thanks so much for your concern!

[Edited at 2008-05-28 16:11]

[Edited at 2008-05-28 17:56]


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:02
English to German
+ ...
Ah, we are getting there. May 28, 2008

As soon as I read: from Spain to the Ukraine via the US, I knew that it will take a while. Your money is not lost. 48 hours usually refer to wire transfers only, such things are expensive. Direct deposits take longer, but you don't have to pay the outrageous fees.

US banks work in mysterious and individual ways and there are no standards. After all, only 4 business days have passed.

I wouldn't worry.

Let's hear if everything went well tomorrow.

Best regards,

Nicole


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Giuseppina Gatta, MA (Hons)
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
Nicole is right... May 28, 2008

...and you are being a little bit too hasty! It may take 2 weeks or more for this kind of transfers. I have been living in Italy for most of my life (Italy, the place where they invented banks ) and I talk out of experience!

Relax, your money will be there finally one of these days

Giusi


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Giuseppina Gatta, MA (Hons)
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
Double posting... May 28, 2008

...sorry
Giusi

[Edited at 2008-05-28 17:15]


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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:02
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
I agree May 28, 2008

Nicole Schnell wrote:

As soon as I read: from Spain to the Ukraine via the US, I knew that it will take a while. Your money is not lost. 48 hours usually refer to wire transfers only, such things are expensive. Direct deposits take longer, but you don't have to pay the outrageous fees.

US banks work in mysterious and individual ways and there are no standards. After all, only 4 business days have passed.

I wouldn't worry.

Let's hear if everything went well tomorrow.

Best regards,

Nicole

I agree with Nicole. Banks (especially US banks) can be very slow with foreign transfers. I know, I used to work in them. Some even have a department called "Tracing" which looks for "lost" transfers, and some make "overnight rates" from briefly investing "unidentified" funds. I don't want to depress you, but I'd wait a few more days before getting too worried about the whereabouts of your money. And there was a public holiday in the US and the UK last Monday, giving them all an excuse to be even slower.
Best of luck,
Jenny




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GoodWords  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 23:02
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Banks don't inform unless asked May 28, 2008

Andrew Yefimov wrote:
The strange thing is that if there was a mistake the client's bank must have let him know about this, I guess.


No, the sending bank doesn't necessarily know that the transfer hasn't arrived unless someone informs them. We had the experience of having a wire transfer go astray in a situation when we were wiring money to ourselves from one country to another. The sending bank had no idea that the transfer was lost (for reasons which were never explained) until we inquired after it failed to arrive.

The receiving bank will have no idea either, because they have not received anything. It's necessary to let the sending bank know and insist they investigate and/or attempt the transfer again.


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Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 07:02
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
just 1 minute ago got a mail from the client's Acc.Department May 28, 2008

You all have almost set my mind at rest but just a minute ago, out of the blue, I've got an e-mail from my client's Account Department.
The account manager seems to be visibly irritated as he speaks in a very biting manner. He started blaming me saying smth like: "You failed to provide us with clear invoice, we did nothing wrong, and at all, you are wasting our time but okay I'll spend an hour of my time tomorrow to check this with my bank ..."
I'm sorry but how could he possibly blame me? And this is after he made two mistakes in a row by indicating wrong account of mine and leaving out SWIFT code of my bank!!! I've been sending invoices based on this template since a long time ago and none of my clients has encountered a slightest problem so far. What I'm driving at is that when they needed translation they were always polite, kindly asking me to work under tight deadlines. But ok, I'm not complaining 'cause that was my choice. All I wanna say is why to turn rude saying I'm wasting their time. I dont like this;( I have a lot of things to do either but I dont behave this way.
P.S. Regarding the transfer time their account manager also tells about 48 hours. Here what he says: 'I need only ONE bank to send the wire OR in Ukraine OR in the US with a clear bank address, a clear ABA routing code, a clear SWIFT code and 48 hours later. It's done!'....Strange, eh?
Also, I'm worried about the words 'I need only ONE bank to send the wire OR in Ukraine OR in the US .'
He is either unprofessional or I dont know then...it seems he doesnt understand how to pay via an intermediary bank or doesnt want to:( This is my first negative experience and I'm shocked to hear such things 'cause all previous payments posted to my account were made via intermediary bank..this is a standard procedure for a person who is gonna make a payment outside Ukraine...
I'm sorry if I'm bothering you all with my long posts ...Dont know what I'd do without you. Many thanks to all for being so supportive!
Best regards,
Andrei

[Edited at 2008-05-28 20:06]


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Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 07:02
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks GoodWords May 28, 2008

It's necessary to let the sending bank know and insist they investigate and/or attempt the transfer again


Thanks so much for this advice. I was asking the client about this but their account manager seems to be very lazy and suggested that I called their bank in Spain myself. Unbelievable!! It's not my responsibility at all. I have a lot of things to do every day as everyone over here, I trust..so why on earth can he not move his finger to pick up the receiver to call his own bank?!...I'm shocked!!...I'm responsible for translation only not for investigation..I'm just sad they do not understand this...hope never to work for them again:(
P.S. I'll insist on them making inquires. Hope this will help.


[Edited at 2008-05-28 20:16]


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Allesklar  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 15:32
Member (2005)
English to German
+ ...
Their bank can't tell you anyway May 28, 2008

How would someone else's bank verify your identity over the phone?

Giving out any transaction details over the phone to a stranger would be an outrageous breach of confidentiality.

If the account manager is no help, try and have a word to his boss. When I have late payers, I usually nag the project managers I have been working with. I have found that account departments respond better to requests coming from within their organisation than from an outsider.


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Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 07:02
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Allesklar! I agree with you about everything you've said May 29, 2008

Allesklar wrote:

If the account manager is no help, try and have a word to his boss. When I have late payers, I usually nag the project managers I have been working with. I have found that account departments respond better to requests coming from within their organisation than from an outsider.



the most dissapointing thing is that when I tried to contact my PM first time about why the payment was delayed I was told that.. he'd quitted the company....=( since that time I've negotiated with the person who took duties over him but she was of no help either..to my first letter I wrote her in English she replied at all in Spanish as if she didnt know English:(

Update: As I have been notified in the morning they've just sent me the third wire. The money was returned to the client second time.
However, as I can see from the pdf copy of payment details the details are not complete again:( This time, SWIFT code of the intermediary bank in the USA has been left out. I've contacted my bank where I've been told there is a possibility for money to be returned againg unless the paying bank indicates this SWIFT code. In light of this I'd like to ask you all if the 'paying bank-intermediary bank-my bank' payment scheme is that complicated that the client cant understand it? I understand EU-countries have their own banking rules but I've worked for clients from over almost all Europe and never experienced any problems. What'd you say? I simply do not know what to tell them third time if the money is returned. I've explained the scheme to the client as simply as I knew how:(
Thank you in advance for your kind help!
Best,
Andrei

[Edited at 2008-05-29 08:55]


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Paula James  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:02
French to English
+ ...
wait a bit longer May 29, 2008

It takes 48 hours for transfers between two banks in Spain, and I always wait about a week for transfers between European countries, so I can only imagine that a transfer like yours will take quite a while. It's entirely possible that the Spanish account manager (or indeed their bank) doesn't know how long it will take - it's probably not something they do every day, and in any case, they just send the money, they won't know when it's been received, and the local bank will probably have no idea.
I think notifications are sent of failures of transfers (maybe depends on the bank) but at least a week to 10 days later, when it's gone through then been returned.

Just seen your update - I think it's very likely that neither the client nor the bank knows much about this type of transfer, especially if it's a small agency. In the past I had clients in Spain who didn't want to make transfers to other European countries, and my bank has no idea about any foreign transfers.

[Edited at 2008-05-29 08:54]


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Andrei Yefimov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 07:02
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
very sad May 29, 2008

Paula James wrote:

Just seen your update - I think it's very likely that neither the client nor the bank knows much about this type of transfer, especially if it's a small agency. In the past I had clients in Spain who didn't want to make transfers to other European countries, and my bank has no idea about any foreign transfers.

[Edited at 2008-05-29 08:54]


I'm very sad... They've also notified me that I am charged X amount due to bank fees:( It's not fair, all right!

The money is most likely to bounce back again to the paying bank. How can I receive my money?? They seem not to answer my e-mails any more...:( I doubt they are gonna take the trouble to wire the money fourth time...maybe they are but they will charge me for this, I guess.
Can anyone help me pls??? I'm desperate...what are my options?
Thanks in advance!
Best,
Andrei

Update#2: They've just let me know they are not gonna do 4th wire:( I'll seek another ways...

Many thanks to all for your concern

[Edited at 2008-05-29 13:11]


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Paula James  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:02
French to English
+ ...
wait a bit May 29, 2008

First, the bank charges thing doesn't sound very fair, unless you had agreed it in advance, but it really doesn't sound like they don't want to pay, just that they aren't very competent. I assume they didn't realise that trasnfer fees would be much higher outside Europe than in the Eurozone, which is whyt they want to charge.

If they weren't going to pay you, they wouldn't be sending you copies of the transfer details etc. They're probably not answering your emails now because there's nothing to say. Until the payment is returned to them, they don't know it hasn't gone through, and can't cancel it once it's in the system.

I think you'll just have to be patient for a few days, and contact them towards the end of the week, and ask them to check then with their bank.


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