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Great article on translator compensation in the United States
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Thread poster: RobinB

Great article on translator compensation in the United States

Mervyn Henderson

Spain
Local time: 04:23

Member
Spanish to English
+ ...

Kevin's "lost" bid

Jun 27, 2008

I am with Kevin, but would further add that we have no need to "explain" anything. Once we start explaining and justifying ourselves, we call up our traditional inferiority complex and start to move ourselves into the customer's natural price-lowering territory. In the same way as a coffee costs X euros and nobody asks the person making the coffee to make it a little cheaper, that is our price.

KSL Berlin

Germany
Local time: 04:23
German to English

Explaining

Jun 27, 2008

Mervyn Henderson wrote:
I am with Kevin, but would further add that we have no need to "explain" anything. Once we start explaining and justifying ourselves, we call up our traditional inferiority complex and start to move ourselves into the customer's natural price-lowering territory. In the same way as a coffee costs X euros and nobody asks the person making the coffee to make it a little cheaper, that is our price.

It depends. What I mean by "explaining" is to make very clear what the customer will get for his/her money. Relevant experience might be cited (for example, that the chemical synthesis will be translated by a qualified chemist, not a linguist with a chemical dictionary and an "A" in high school chemistry 20 years ago). The fact that proofreading by a second qualified translator, often a specialist for a particular subject, is included may be relevant. For scanned documents, it may be attractive to the customer to know that I can include an editable source document with my delivery to replace a "lost" original and facilitate future revisions (which, of course, I am available to translate). And so on. Each job is unique, and the combination of services relevant to that job, including options, should be outlined clearly in many cases. (This is also my way of making sure I haven't forgotten anything.)

If I just say "this is my price, basta!" with no further explanation of what I intend to deliver and what else I may be able to provide, then I invite unproductive price comparisons. You can bet the big agencies out there (whom I am probably not permitted to name) justify their prices by blathering on about all the "value-added service" they provide. So what if it's often BS? They get away with it, and that is what upsets our Greek friend and others in this thread. So we play the same game and state very honestly why the end customer is better off with us. Or if we are dealing with an agency, why our high rate is really cheaper in the end because our work requires less revision, the terminologies we provide build customer loyalty or whatever. This is a business, and as with any business, many people read things into price differences, and you may want to exercise some honest influence over their interpretations. Something else to consider: sometimes on the "high end", a ridiculously high price can be perceived as the ability to provide better quality. I'm sure a few of us can name examples of jobs lost by us or others because our bids were too low. Just today I was kicking myself over the fact that I had signed a contract with a major client for a very comfortable rate only to discover that he thought he had signed the contract for 50% more (at about the level a number of people have suggested we should be charging). The point is: this is a business, and we need to be flexible and aware of the market and its potential. There is a lot more potential in this market than even most of the successful translators are aware of or have the energy to deal with.

Paula James

Spain
Local time: 04:23

Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...

I agree, Kevin

Jun 27, 2008

Sorry, I see now I wasn't very clear. I don't think doctors or lawyers are necessarily paid spectularly well, especially for the amount of training and hard work they have to put in at the start. I was really referring back to other people who were saying they wanted the same conditions, I was trying to say that I don't think the professions can be compared, they are so very different.
By lack of respect, I was meaning the same as you, in that people don't seem to understand the need for actual professionals (I get frequent requests to help out "friends of friends" who have seen I have lots of work and have decided they want to be translators too, as they've learnt Spanish from living in Spain). Quite a few people don't seem to understand I'm not an English teacher, or don't understand why I don't teach English, assuming it must be a better job. Also, there are those on here who seem to think translation is a housewife's job etc.
It doesn't worry me, I know what I do is valuable, and enjoy it, and believe there is a future in it.

N.M. Eklund

France
Local time: 04:23

Member (2005)
French to English
+ ...

Coming to terms and taking advantage of the market

Jun 27, 2008

Kevin Lossner wrote:

The point is: this is a business, and we need to be flexible and aware of the market and its potential. There is a lot more potential in this market than even most of the successful translators are aware of or have the energy to deal with.

You hit the nail on the head Kevin.
I believe a 'Business' translator can earn quite a lot of money and live very well, as long as we're flexible and wise enough to use the market to our advantage.

The first step is indeed becoming aware of the market and its problems and weaknesses, and the next is identifying its potential. A few years ago I felt in a rut too and its too easy to fall into a fatalistic point of view. The fact of the matter is that the world evolves, professions evolve, and we must evolve with it. At the same time we fight for our own principles, such as correct rates and educating the client about the value of a good translation. Following these ideas, I'm out of my rut and flying high. There will always be those clients that are looking for quick/cheap translations, and there will always be those clients looking specifically for a quality translator. Maybe there will be two groups of translators to fit these two types of demands.

I also understand Eleftherios' frustrated point of view because what he and the others have observed do exist in the market. It is a fact and it's a strong trend that overwhelms many translators, epecially new and 'junior' translators. However, it is important to know that if we're in a rut that has become unsatisfactory, it doesn't mean that it's all or nothing (suffering it or getting out of the profession).

I grew up in the the US surrounded by the meritocracy mentality. It's not so much a question of climbing each individual rung and getting all the right diplomas, it's the experience and what you can do with what you learned from this experience.
Living in France, I've seen a culture that's very attached to the opposite 'climb each rung' method, and yet despite this, my experience has opened more doors for me because I've used it to my advantage. Perhaps that's why I stay so positive about the market, I know I'm not obliged to sit back and accept these poor rates :
to boil it down to one maybe too basic point - If you don't like it , then change it. You know what you're talking about and you're able to have an influence on anothers, so you have the ability to change things in your favor. You're not as powerless as you may think.

Andrew Steel

Spain
Local time: 04:23
Spanish to English

Looking forward

Jun 27, 2008

As I understand it, this thread is essentially about what the future, let's say the next 5-10 years, holds for the translation profession.

The question is: What do we think it will look like and do we like what we see?

As several of the contributors to this thread have rightly pointed out, the future will be what we make it.

Unfortunately, 'we' as a profession often seem to be pulling in opposite directions, which means it's not clear which course our collective future will take.

Does it matter that there are hordes of amateurs out there willing to work for a fraction of the rate charged by everyone on this thread who's stated their commitment to quality, professionalism and a business-like approach?

Does it matter that thousands of shoe-string agencies are spamming virtually every company in the Yellow Pages at home and abroad with cut-price offers that lower potential end clients' price expectations, and that they're able to do it because they know they'll find plenty of free-lance translators who'll be glad of the work?

Who knows? But, what we really ought to ask ourselves is: Is ignoring them a sign of serene wisdom based on the certainty that it will not affect us? Or is it a sign of head-in-the-sand complacency that sooner or later will be rudely interrupted?

Again, who knows? No doubt some will remain unscathed whilst others will be hit hard. Perhaps it's happening already.

The important thing is to ask ourselves these questions and have these discussions, which is why Bernie Bierman's article, despite its blatantly provocative tone, is a valuable contribution to the debate.

Andrew

KSL Berlin

Germany
Local time: 04:23
German to English

Looking forward isn't that hard here

Jun 27, 2008

Andrew, the jokers you mention are certainly part of the market and may well persist in it, but I don't take them seriously, because I have yet to see that they can really deliver translations that meet the expectations of clients who want quality. There will be clients who care only about the price and are indifferent to quality or incapable of judging it, but so what? That's not the market I'm interested in, because it really is a losing proposition to play in that field.

What will happen? They will continue to push each other to starvation and bankruptcy while the rest of us get on with business and make as much money as we feel like making. Many of them will eventually move on, and I doubt that the serious business-oriented translators among us will notice if the door hits them in the butt or not on their way out nor will we care.

I tend to stay away from agencies that play the multi-level subcontracting game and work with smaller ones that understand how to market to direct customers. They are good at what they do, fun to work with and in every respect good business partners. In my mind, however, I do not work for them. They work for me. They are my virtual marketing department, and I love them for taking the time to recruit the end customers and coordinate things so I can focus on what I do best. Of course I deal with end customers too, often at much better rates, but when I consider the extra time invested in acquiring and supporting these customers (and telling them for the Nth time that I don't do French and they should contact the translators I recommended for that language the last time I was asked - yes, maybe I'm a fool for not getting involved in outsourcing, but that's my way of keeping my blood pressure low), it's just about the same result in the end. The trend I have seen in prices since 2000 has been a positive upward one, though at times not all that steeply upward. If I feel that a favored agency isn't paying enough I try to think of how to help them make more from the end client so I can get whatever extra I expect. And I consider it a natural thing to provide mutual support for business plans, proposals and technical issues. Agencies are indeed the translator's ally in many cases - at least the good ones are. And if some company can mark my services up 300%, that's super - they'll be in business next year and can afford my next increase, unlike the nice but clueless agency (or wanna-be) that tries to survive on a 20% mark-up.

Tatty

Spain
Local time: 04:23
Spanish to English
+ ...

But luckily we live in Europe

Jun 27, 2008

and the EU has passed a directive which is clearly aimed at providing purchasers of translations with minimum guarantees, and rightly so. Another triumph for consumer rights.

In Spain, more and more agencies are starting to implement the standard, which means that people are actually taking notice of it (the same can't be said of all EU directives, especially the one about how I should get paid within 2 weeks of sending the invoice!). In the short run, it probably won't have much effect because everyone who is already on board probably has 3 or 5 years experience and therefore can stay on aboard. The directive promotes linguist translators as opposed to specialist-led ones. IMO, linguist translators are the ones who have less bargaining power in the market. MAs in specialised translation seem to be the new thing in England, and they cost about 6,000 GBP apiece - these graduates should be able to command higher rates. But the new arrangements may leave specialised translation somewhat lacking if it is all carried out by people who are predominantly linguists, but we are only discussing the rates aspect of the translation business.

The rest of the world will just have to fend for themselves.

RobinB

Germany
Local time: 04:23
German to English

TOPIC STARTER

Directive? What directive?

Jun 28, 2008

Tatty wrote: and the EU has passed a directive which is clearly aimed at providing purchasers of translations with minimum guarantees, and rightly so.

That's news to me, and to everybody else, I suspect. You wouldn't be referring to the Late Payment Directive, by any chance? Not exactly a safeguard, is it....

Another triumph for consumer rights.

I don't quite see where consumers come into. As translation providers, we're business entities, not consumers.

In Spain, more and more agencies are starting to implement the standard, which means that people are actually taking notice of it (the same can't be said of all EU directives, especially the one about how I should get paid within 2 weeks of sending the invoice!).

Ah, are you referring perhaps to EN 15038:2006, the controversial new standard for translation service quality? I'm not quite sure what effect this is supposed to have on translation content quality (absolutely none, I suspect), and there are certainly no guarantees in it for anybody.

The directive promotes linguist translators as opposed to specialist-led ones.

Again, I don't really know what you mean here. Are "linguist translators" those who know languages but no subject areas, and "specialist-led translators" those who know subject areas but no languages, or what?

And how about those translators who work in the premium segment of the industry? Those with outstanding language *and* subject area knowledge, coupled with essential business skills, who account for less than 5% of translators overall, but more than 95% of translation quality?

The rest of the world will just have to fend for themselves.

Then perhaps you'll have to explain not only why some of the best translation MAs are available in the USA, but also why the US is a world leader when it comes to translator CPD. And why some emerging economies are moving very fast in the field of translator education.

Robin