Who works for 0.035 EUR/word?
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| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | | User | Thread poster: madeleine van Zanten Who works for 0.035 EUR/word? |
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Eleftherios Kritikakis 
United States
 Member (2003)
Greek to English
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| | Connect the World? | Jul 22 |
In every other market that I worked, there was increasing competition about the Quality. New companies and new people were competing on quality and accuracy and they were increasing their prices. Exciting markets, really.
In this market, there are some agencies out there that say "We Connect The World" in their ads and websites, but the overall quality is such, that they' re actually disconnecting the world. The new slogan should be "We Don't Connect Much, But we' re Cheap".
This is the first market (historically) where the demand increases and the prices fall... more and more translations in the market, more and more agencies, and the translators' prices are falling... and then you' re trying to convince me that this is not a result of miserable mentalities.
On the other hand, it would be nice if the oil market was like that. At least we would be able to get a gallon of gasoline for 5 cents. I also wish that the commodities market was like that. There would be no inflation problem, worldwide.
It would be nice if the CAT manufacturers had the same mentality (trados would cost about 12 dollars for the whole package).
It would be nice if Henry was lowering prices too, to satisfy the ones "who got away". The annual membership would have been $3.
[Edited at 2008-07-22 07:49]
 
| | | | Penelope Ausejo
Spain
 Member (2004)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| | 0.035 € (proofreading rate) | Jul 22 |
0.035 is my minimum proofreading rate (EN>ES)
I also agree that we should not accept low rates. Let alone if we have a mortgage (which I do), babies (I've got 3), etc. If our cost of living is high, then we definitely have to search for higher paying clients, whether agencies or end-clients. And yes... they are out there.
It is not worth it to spend our time translating for a ridiculous fee. We should use that time searching for good clients that pay decent fees so that in the end we are able to make ends meet.
| | | | Tomás Cano Binder
Spain
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
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Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
It's not an issue of supply and demand, since the product is already sold when it gets to the translator. If the translator denies the price, then the price will keep rising because the product is already sold.
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Yes, I agree with the whole of the note. Let's strive to be multicellular organisms! Let's strive to drive prices up again!
May I also add that the enemy is within, as already explained by other people here: translators who get tired of translating for 10 cents start to accept more work at 8 cents and pay other translators 4 cents to make earnings of 50% for no or little work! Tremendously cheeky and really not good for the profession. Let's do our own work and make money with it at a reasonable rate instead of trying to exploit other people!!
[Edited at 2008-07-22 08:00]
| | | | Jack Qin
China
Member (Jun 2008)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| | Focus on your speciality for decent rates | Jul 22 |
as most of our colleagues mentioned, concentrating on your speciality and offering quality translations are the key to obtaining decent rates.
As far as I am concerned, I just specialize in such three domains as Electrical Engineering, Quality Control/Assurance and Tourism & Travel, which are all my advantages. Normally I charge 0.06-0.10 EUR per source word. Though it is not so high as that of my colleagues living in Europe and North America, I think it is OK for me.
| | | | madeleine van Zanten
Switzerland
Member
English to Dutch
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Hi you all - I'm glad we got into this discussion, for it seems that we all suffer of price breaking. It's true, most of the time the product is allready sold, and we do have a possibility to demand better rates. And most of all, we should be more aware of our value as specialised professionnals - in particular when we work for companies where a manager makes as much in one day as we do in a month. It's all in your head, not only your skills but also your idea about how much they are worth!
| | | | Jennifer Barnett
France
Dutch to English
| | lack of ambition? oh yes! | Jul 22 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
Also, translators are the least ambitious "professionals" in the solar system. I'm not saying "on earth" because I believe that the left-over bacteria in the underground icy environment of Mars are more ambitious and resilient than translators. The only goal of translators is to make an "ok salary" for the country they live in. That explains the overall mediocrity in the quality as well. Very boring people. That's the reason they will never be anything more than poor and boring. If someone gives them more work, they will deliberately lower the price so that they still make the same monthly income... which has to be low, because these countries have to remain poor (they' re used to it).
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I am new in translation after having started out as as English teacher then becoming a textile conservator/lecturer (restoring historic textiles). Based on my experience, which includes observations made in many countries, I can assure you that textile conservators win in this sad competition. The very few males in the professions tend to be heads of departments. Unbridled perfectionism, control, self sacrifice, no separation of work and self, low self-esteem, working for love (or beauty) not money, ambitious/successful colleagues frowned upon and shunned, victim mentality, self-promotion is taboo, yet complaining how hard it is, how little money etc etc. I eventually wrote an article (in Dutch) about the problem of the vicious circle in textile conservation and will one day publish it again in English. Anyhow, as much as it saddens me to say it, I believe it is a problem inherent in the (western) female culture and any profession in which females dominate seems to show these characteristics although of course the mix and degree will always vary. Even 'feminist' women can still have these characteristics and have been known to defend them fiercely. By the way, I am a female and a feminist whatever that means these days.
It has also been noticed, not only by me but I have no references to hand, that professions in which females start to dominate tend to lose their status and pay rates become lower. For example, this tendency was reported to have occurred with general practioners (family doctors) in the Netherlands. Teaching is another example. I suspect that the same is happening in translation. Have I unwittingly landed myself in another 'female' profession!!? Perhaps I am a masochist and should accept that!
What to do about it? identify the problem!
My raising of consciousness about this issue began with a vague uncomfortable feeling in certain situations: something wrong here. Then I read
'Games your mother never taught you: corporate gamesmanship for women' by B.H. Harragan
and it all fell into place. I thoroughly recommend this book to anyone, of any sex (yes, that was deliberate) who wants to understand how power and status work in the Western work culture. For example, if you have never played team sports and learnt team rules, you may have a handicap in work situations. With the awareness to be gained from this book, you can learn to play the business/bureaucracy game to your own advantage and achieve more control in your interactions. 'Empowerment' is the current term. Then if you still wish to continue playing the underdog it will be at least a conscious decision instead of an uncontrolled emotional response.
While I am at it, here is more to complicate the matter. It seems that countries have either a feminine (consensus) or masculine (authoritarian) style of culture which is directly mirrored in the work culture. Scandinavia and the Netherlands are more feminine while UK, USA and Germany are more masculine. Can't find the book title but it was written by a Dutch person, probably a sociologist. This interested me because, as an Australian, I found it very difficult to cope with the Dutch work culture and could not understand it before studying the subject. The Dutch stereotypical female was even more difficult to fathom but that is another story.
With today's international internet working culture, some awareness of the international working culture differences should be useful especially for those moving to another country. However, I have learnt that the female work sub-culture thing can vary significantly between apparently similar countries. There are many paradoxes out there.
Bottom line: be pro-active, not passive.
If you are unhappy with the system, try to change it. if you can't change the system you have to accept it and change your own behavior. If you are not prepared to undergo that inconvenience then you have no right to keep on complaining. Instead, throw yourself into being a self-aware masochist! (hit me with more words - oh YES!).
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| robertsmith
German to English
| | Rates are on a generally downward trend | Jul 22 |
Rates in general are falling. Five years ago the standard in-house starting salary for a translator in the UK was 20-25 K and seniors could expect around 40 or more in a good company. Nowadays salaries in agencies are absolutely collapsing. A starting salary is often as little as 16 K and seniors should be lucky with anything over 25K. The salaries have collapsed because there are too many people and companies in eastern europe and asia providing translations at ultra cheap rates which can be emailed anywhere in the world. Agencies in the developed world simply can't compete.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
 Partial member
Italian to English
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People who work for incredibly low rates can't possibly be doing a good job. There must be an awful lot of very bad (but cheap) translations out there.
"You get what you pay for"
| | | | Dalila Bregent-James
United Kingdom
English to French
| | A secretary will earn more | Jul 22 |
mvzanten wrote:
It's been a while since I checked out the jobs on Proz, and this morning, I realized that I wouldn't have liked it anyway... who amongst you works for a rate of 0.035 EUR/word for a translation into French, or 490 EUR/16000 words? In my country, you will not find a cleaning lady for that price, so what is happening to the rates for qualified work? |
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As a young secretary without qualification I used to earn more than many translators do. What is wrong? Now, many years later with a proper qualification (a master in translation) I am offering ridiculous rates. Should I go back working as a PA, pushing papers, instead of using my brain?
| | | | María del Mar Cota
Mexico
Member (Jul 2008)
English to Spanish
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| | wowowowow it's an allucination | Jul 22 |
what kind of rates are those? Please, love yourself
| | | | Necdet Balta
Turkey
Member (Jul 2008)
English to Turkish
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Dalila Bregent-James wrote:
mvzanten wrote:
It's been a while since I checked out the jobs on Proz, and this morning, I realized that I wouldn't have liked it anyway... who amongst you works for a rate of 0.035 EUR/word for a translation into French, or 490 EUR/16000 words? In my country, you will not find a cleaning lady for that price, so what is happening to the rates for qualified work? |
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As a young secretary without qualification I used to earn more than many translators do. What is wrong? Now, many years later with a proper qualification (a master in translation) I am offering ridiculous rates. |
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This is the most commonsensical and realistic post in this thread. Finally!
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| John Paul Weir
Ireland
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
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Finally!
Dalila Bregent-James wrote:
mvzanten wrote:
It's been a while since I checked out the jobs on Proz, and this morning, I realized that I wouldn't have liked it anyway... who amongst you works for a rate of 0.035 EUR/word for a translation into French, or 490 EUR/16000 words? In my country, you will not find a cleaning lady for that price, so what is happening to the rates for qualified work?
As a young secretary without qualification I used to earn more than many translators do. What is wrong? Now, many years later with a proper qualification (a master in translation) I am offering ridiculous rates.
This is the most commonsensical and realistic post in this thread. Finally! |
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...offering ridiculous rates (to others), or being offered ridiculous rates (by others)???
| | | | Amy Duncan
United States
Member (2005)
Portuguese to English
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Lynda Tharratt wrote:
In regard to Elena's comment about translators being our own worst enemies, she's absolutely right. I see freelancers posting jobs for peanuts all the time. I think what is happening, and I have confirmed this on a couple of occasions, is that the freelancer X receives a job for say, 10,000 words from Agency A at a rate of .10 US, then they receive another offer from Agency B for 10,000 words at a rate of .14 US, both jobs have the same deadline. Freelancer X accepts both jobs and outsources the first translation for .05 US, gets to still make .05 a word on the first job and also makes .14 US per word for the second translation. |
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Yikes, I can't imagine being, as they say in Rio de Janeiro, that "cara-de-pau" (shameless, or literally, "wooden faced") to do that. In my experience, unethical behavior never leads to success, not true success, anyway.
Amy
| | | | Hokyun You
Canada
Member (2007)
English to Korean
+ ...
| | There are many who would work for lower rate | Jul 23 |
It all depends on your perception to the value of the money.
There are many different countries with different level of economy.
For me, I would not work for that rate.
| | | | Ivana Friis Wilson
United Kingdom
Member (Mar 2008)
English to Danish
+ ...
| | Jennifers sociological analysis - and how to end the low rates | Jul 23 |
Great post, Jennifer, very insightful! I have been thinking along similar lines (I live in feminine Denmark...), that it really has to do with a feminine (and that doesn't apply just to women!) approach to putting value on services - it is simply perception of value, and apparently we are quite happy to agree with agencies that our work is worth very little.
To a certain extent, ProZ.com promotes this. This is the place agencies go to get translation at rock-bottom prices.
I have started a new approach. Every time I get a job post offering low rates, I promptly make an offer with my rates - usually double or triple the offered rate. Obviously I never get the job - but if we all do that - they might get the message eventually.
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The translation workplace 
