Who works for 0.035 EUR/word?
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| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | | User | Thread poster: madeleine van Zanten Who works for 0.035 EUR/word? |
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avicenna
Germany
German to Turkish
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Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
Yes, this is my rate for proofreading, and for editing I charge higher (0.05-0.06).
AFAIK EUR 0.10 - 0.12 is the 'normal' rate for translation, at least in Europe. |
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Well. Except the way, how to difference proofreading and editing. In most cases it's the same. You cannot proofreading without editing, can you?! 
selamlar
Avicenna
| | | | Marie-Hélène Hayles 
Italy
 Member (2004)
Italian to English
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| | Proofreading and editing are not the same | Jul 23 |
avicenna wrote:
Well. Except the way, how to difference proofreading and editing. In most cases it's the same. You cannot proofreading without editing, can you?!
selamlar
Avicenna
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It's a common misconception, but they are not the same thing. Editing - or revision - in our case is a process where you check the translation against the original for any mistranslations, grammatical errors, clunky phrasing, misspellings and so on and revise it as necessary.
Proofreading is when you are given the final text in the form in which it will be published and you check it for any errors which have crept in - typically typos/printing errors. You should not make any other changes to a text you are proofreading, as what you have in front of you is the final version (which in my field, may well have been approved by a regulatory authority and so must be published as is).
I do revisions regularly, but I've only been asked to do a proofreading on a couple of occasions - one of a product information sheet that I had translated, and another of something I'd not worked on personally.
[Edited at 2008-07-23 10:22]
 
| | | | Dany Caputo
Italy
Member (Jul 2008)
English to Italian
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... I'm Italian and I contacted some of the best translation agencies in the North (I live in the South, where everyone has a low salary, no matter what). I even did translation tests for them but they said that even a rate of 0,05€ was way too expensive. would you believe that for technical translation they would pay something like 0,04€/word? And they were supposed to be the best! It's something that happened with several agencies, while others from the South wanted free test translations... too bad that "test translation" for them meant "entire website translation for free"!!! So, Italian or not, I'm not working with Italian agencies at all.
I noticed that agencies in China offer the lowest rates... I also offer discounts (+5000 words etc), but they still say they can only pay rates like 0,03€/word. I know that Euros now are quite expensive but it's not our fault, don't you think? And yet for someone like me, who has been working "once in a while" as a translator and has just finished two very long projects (1 year and half) it's quite difficult to get a steady amount of work every month, they all offer low rates, even saying that I'm too young and thus possibly unexperienced. 
| | | | Viktoria Gimbe
Canada
Member (2005)
English to French
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| | I believe this statement was misunderstood | Jul 24 |
avicenna wrote:
You cannot proofreading without editing, can you?!
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I actually agree with this. Any document that requires for the best quality to be there needs both of these services, and as Avicenna says, reviewing is done before proofreading. There's no point in proofreading a document that hasn't been reviewed. Of course, proofreading can be incorporated into reviewing in some cases - but in my book, a translation should be seen by three pairs of eyes before it can in all honesty be called a finished translation.
Some will say I'm exaggerating - I reply that it is precisely because so many people confuse reviewing and proofreading that people now think that only two pairs of eyes are needed. And I am sure that the falling rates have only contributed to this confusion...
With that being said, I had a very pleasant experience this week. For the first time ever since I've been working as a freelancer, I was approached by an agency (requesting references, free translation test and volume discounts, no less) who, after my polite reply explaining my business practices, accepted to pay me for a translation test, then skipped the test to offer me the job, didn't ask for CAT tool discounts and didn't even ask me to use a CAT tool! They went from negligible prospect to desirable prospect overnight - and I just may have a new client, too. Don't despair! The lesson I've learned this week is that it can really be worth it to politely reply to people who seem to be asking for too much - they just might have a good enough impression of you that they will accept your terms (provided you are competent and professional enough to pull off a good first impression, of course). Better yet (this may be my case), they might be asking for too much in order to filter out wannabe translators so they only keep the serious ones. I totally understand - with the crappy work I've been asked to fix lately, I pity the serious, professional agencies for not being able to find skilled freelancers.
| | | | Paola Dentifrigi
Italy
Member (2003)
English to Italian
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Ivana Friis Wilson wrote:
I have started a new approach. Every time I get a job post offering low rates, I promptly make an offer with my rates - usually double or triple the offered rate. Obviously I never get the job - but if we all do that - they might get the message eventually. |
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I'm starting to have this problem with the RO>IT pair. The other day a job
was published, at the incredible rate of 25 €/2 pages. I proposed three times their offer. Of course it was not accepted.
Then I started wondering why an Italian should accept working for
peanuts in a language where competition among Italian natives is still very low.
Lack of dignity? Ignorance? Awarness of being a bad translator?
For those who understand Italian please read here http://www.proz.com/forum/italian/110773-le_tariffe_da_lingue_pi%C3%B9_rare.html
and share.
Cheers,
Paola
| | | | Alfredo Fernández Martínez
Spain
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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| | This rate is ridiculous as well as pathetic for Europe/North America/many other countries too | Jul 24 |
And, so much more, when they come up with the d****d Trados fuzzy and repetitions rates.
In which case, they probably would offer to pay.. as low as 0.0175 Euros, and even less!
There is a bottomless pit of ever spiraling-down rates... How about working for free ,so we can only add some experience to our CV's, and agencies make much more money?
We might as well; at least, we wouldn't feel so exploited, working as slaves for some breadcrums and leftovers...
It wound then be like painting in your spare time, or looking after our garden/pets/house... After all, clients/agencies take it as a hobby... and we do not need money, why would be work to earn a living?
I'll copy a post written by myself from another Money Matters Forum:
http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/110333-have_translation_agencies_lowered_the_fees_they_char ge_end_clients-page3.html
Would you go to a cleaner/plumber/electrician/carpenter, and say:
'Hello, I have xx (let's say 40) USD/EUR, and I need my xxx repaired for this amount'
Or, another example:
You walk into a restaurant, and say:
'Hey, I would like to have something to eat for 10 EUR/USD, this is my budget.
But, please, also bear in mind: can I have a discount by serving the food by myself, drinking tap water, and eating quickly, so you can have the table available in 30 mins again?'
How about if you serve me the food everyday? In this way, you know how to cook it. You need much less efford, less time, less staff.
How about if I provide you with the recipe? And with some ingredients? What about if I cook it myself in your kitchen?
That would save you a considerable amount of money, so please reduce my bill'.
Or do you haggle down the tuition fees when you go a course/university/school?
Even when you have to purchase the books, you know some of the subjects and contents, maybe even more or better than the teacher?
Is it cheaper if you teach yourself the lesson, rather than asking the teacher?
The answer is no. No, no,no.
You would ask for an estimate, you probably would shop around to compare it with other providers, to then finally call back, and choose one based on quality/price/speed/reputation/materials/etc.
So, I honesty do not care if the job is for a poor company, for a agency trying to make a living, or simply, they are prepared to make a massive profit margin by pushing rates even further down.
Or if we are in crisis, in recession, or in a economical slowdown.
Or whatever other feeble, surreal, pathetic or simply irrelevant excuse they want to make, and which I find impossible to verify in any case.
My rates are my rates. And more so for a new client I know nothing about, and who is trying to dump me/us in the swamps of the low paid pool.
I don't deserve a car, a mortgage, or a reasonable standard of living simply because other call themselves what they do not prove to be?
If I wanted to adapt myself to the client, I might as well set up an NGO, a.k.a. as a charity.
By doing so, I would NOT be able to have to pay bills, fees, taxes. etc.
And then we are all good to each other, food and energy is free... while other make their quick buck at our expenses.
So, I find adapting one's self to someone lower rates, it is simply not worth to work as a translator anymore:
I would much rather work as a cleaning person for a starting rate of 10 Euros/hour, tax free, cash-in-hand, in Spain.
Just have a think: More money, less hours, 0 expenditure on materials, courses, software, PC, trips, etc.
No headaches, no struggle with clients, providers and bidding, and no danger of being outbid on a website. Simply cleaning 8 h, then go home.
Life is all about choices.
Alfredo
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| Andrea Riffo
Chile
 Partial member
English to Spanish
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Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
Proofreading is when you are given the final text in the form in which it will be published and you check it for any errors which have crept in - typically typos/printing errors. You should not make any other changes to a text you are proofreading, as what you have in front of you is the final version (which in my field, may well have been approved by a regulatory authority and so must be published as is).
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Agree 500%. By "proofreading" I understand the final quality check, to correct stray typos and the possible odd mispellings and nothing else.
Greetings 
| | | | Miroslav Jeftic
Serbia
English to Serbian
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Williamson wrote:
Miroslav Jeftic wrote:
In Serbia 500-600€ is a good monthly salary, and translating 16000 words would take much less than a month, so no problem with that rate. |
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English to Korean is a rare combination. Your prices are rather low.
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Well, neither English nor Korean are my native languages, so I think I cannot ask the same as someone who is native in at least one of those.
| | | | Madeleine MacRae Klintebo
United Kingdom
Swedish to English
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| | But you still consider yourself competent... | Jul 25 |
Miroslav Jeftic wrote:
Williamson wrote:
Miroslav Jeftic wrote:
In Serbia 500-600€ is a good monthly salary, and translating 16000 words would take much less than a month, so no problem with that rate. |
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English to Korean is a rare combination. Your prices are rather low.
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Well, neither English nor Korean are my native languages, so I think I cannot ask the same as someone who is native in at least one of those. |
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...to work in this language pair?
[Edited at 2008-07-25 19:29]
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Flemish to English
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| | Say no-school teacher reaction. | Jul 26 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Williamson wrote:
With regard to the eternal native -non-native discussion :
Thank you for the advice. I do not want to be “lost in translation” forever. I know in what direction I want to go. Translating using certain language combinations is a good preparation for that direction. Besides, I do not work alone. My London-based editor would have made the same remark . I can only learn and improve.
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... you've made that decision as from your past comments you haven't been overly content in this field for a long time. It's not for everyone, admittedly. Good luck with whatever you've decided to do.
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When are all those apostles of native-only going to learn that language skills equal assimilation of words, meaning and thought and that practise makes perfect.
No, "mathematics" is not my native language, but it is a language which if I don't practise it, I can not "translate" it (i.e. solve problems).
Translation, of course. What you do is your business and what I do is mine. If translating in different directions and different subjects with the help of different people specialized in different subjects will be my way to go, this is my business. If it makes sense to enhance my knowledge of some Romance languages this is none of your business.
As long as I can deliver and the customer is satisfied all those comments are superfluous.
If our Serbian colleague considers himself competent to translate from Korean into English, why not?
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For those who moan about low rates: It is your own fault. You accept what is offered on your plate. If prices are too low, say no and move on. If reduction is asked for Trados say "no" and move on. There no failures, only outcomes. If you say "no" to one path, you can always walk another. I wonder how many have a backup activity besides translation or enough money on the bank to say "NO" and wait until the right customer comes along.
It are your rates and you are responsible for them.
With regard to prices, I've worked for the most expensive courier company. That company promises to deliver on time, every time whatever it takes (or money-back). A letter from 0.5 gram from say Paris to Los Angeles costs about €92. Expensive? The company focused on Quality and never gave in on price.
In no business, but the translation business you have to give discounts because some is repetitive (can be avoided by calculating by the hour).
Did the advent of sites like these made you all lazy? I don't rely on a bidding system. I'll bid once and a while, but I'd rather take the yellow pages or year-books or annual results and start a round of cold calls.
[Edited at 2008-07-26 16:03]
| | | | Madeleine MacRae Klintebo
United Kingdom
Swedish to English
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| | Not moaning at all | Jul 26 |
Williamson wrote:
If our Serbian colleague considers himself competent to translate from Korean into English, why not?
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I have no problem if he, and his clients, are happy with the end result.
What I can't understand is why he thinks he "cannot ask the same as someone who is native in at least one of those."?
Either he's as competent as a native speaker of either/both language/s (and should charge accordingly) or he's trying to sell an inferior product at a discount.
For those who moan about low rates: It is your own fault. You accept what is offered on your plate. |
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Not a moan in sight in my posting you might have noticed. My rates are precisely where I want them to be.
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| BELGLOBAL
Spain
Partial member
Japanese to Spanish
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| | I was also surprised | Jul 27 |
My experience as translator is not very long.
Recently, I was contacted by a company who offered me 0.04 euros per word, considering a translation of a book in Japanese (No PDF or word document provided.) Then, I asked another translator for help because I think this is really a low rate if we think of the diffculties translating Japanese and the time required. No answer came, but I did not accepted the offer anyway. I had to finish other projects. However, I do not know what I will do next time because I need to work.
Outside Proz, I was paid very badly for a Spanish-Japanese translation. My native language is Spanish so I needed the collaboration of a native speaking Japanese translator. The experience was good but I would not repeat it.
Certainly 0.035 Euros? is a very low rate if clients expect high quality works.
Isabel
| | | | Samuel Murray
South Africa
Member (2006)
Afrikaans to English
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| | Cleaning staff do translation in Switzerland??? | Jul 28 |
mvzanten wrote:
Who amongst you works for a rate of 0.035 EUR/word for a translation into French, or 490 EUR/16000 words? In my country, you will not find a cleaning lady for that price... |
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Or, do cleaning staff in Switzerland work per sweep, per wipe or per scrub?
| | | | writeaway
Belgium
French to English
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| | Who works for 0.035 EUR/word? | Jul 28 |
Lots of people. Just look at the number of jobs offered at such rates and look at the number of people submitting bids.
But if no one worked for such low rates, then those rates would have to be higher. Clearly there is a huge market of translators willing to work for €0.035 and even less, right here on ProZ.com and on all similar sites. Or job providers would have to stop making such ridiculous 'offers'.
That's what might happen if there were demand and no supply.....
| | | | Albert Stufkens
Netherlands
Member (Jun 2008)
Dutch to English
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| | Working for Indian and Chinese peanuts | Jul 28 |
I decided to become a full member in the belief that I can do some serious business as a provider of translation services.
To my dismay and disbelief I came to understand that Proz.com is being abused by clients as a market to get highly qualified services at Indian or Chinese peanut rates.
To stop this downward spiral of rates and 'dignity' there has to be some regulation. Either, Proz.com members/users realize this dangerous trend and get into some concerted action and agree on bottom lines, or Proz.com should protect its members by laying down rules to clients as well members as to minimum rates.
Otherwise, instead of Proz.com being a source of professional knowledge, expertise and earnings, it may become a detrimental place for translators.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | |
The translation workplace 
