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ex bad payer setting up a new firm
Thread poster: Bilore

Bilore  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:44
English to French
+ ...
Jul 30, 2008

I'm faced with a dilemna and would like to have someone's opinion about this.

I was warned by another translator than a bad payer who already acted under several names (and was banned from posting on proz under two of his names) has set up a new company after moving to another country.

His main activity isn't translation but he also offers translation services on some profiles he registered for his society (not on translation business related websites).

When he had swindled many translators (including me) the first time and had disappeared, I had warned a moderator here that he had a new identity and would do the same again (at that time he had registered a new profile on proz). The answer was that I couldn't post on the BB since I had not worked for him under his new identity.... a few weeks later some translators posted that they were unpaid and the man disappeared again.

Now, he is operating from another country with a new society name and I have no doubt he will do the same. He isn't a translator but selling translators' work to his clients is easy money for him. Should we wait until he swindles translators again, especially newbies?

Thank you for giving me your opinion on that matter.

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2008-07-30 06:32]


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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:44
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
I've been wanting to ask the same question Jul 30, 2008

Hello Bilore,
I've been wanting to ask the same question - possibly not about the same "gentleman".
His notorious translation business (one of several in at least three countries) was finally declared bankrupt, leaving hundreds of translators unpaid. I am expecting him to pop up again with a new company name. I now know a little bit about him and am constantly scanning the "calls for Blue Board entries" here to see if he or anyone with a name resembling his pops up again - I'm convinced it will.
I'd like to warn others to look out for him by name, but it seems that the Proz rules do not allow us to do this.
Best wishes,
Jenny.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:44
English to German
+ ...
Case-by-case analysis - keep moderators informed Jul 30, 2008

Hi Christine, hi Jenny,
I'd like to warn others to look out for him by name, but it seems that the Proz rules do not allow us to do this.

Not in the forums - the Blue Board is the section provided for exchanging experience.

Things aren't always black and white - I recall a situation where former staff of an insolvent agency started working for a new company, with numerous creditors of the old entity vocally demanding that warnings be placed, and attempting to post entries although they had not worked for the new entity. At the time, moderators looked into information available (including details readily provided by the new entity) - we found that this was a new outfit, who had simply taken over part of the old team (excluding senior management, that is). The new entity now has an average LWA of 5.0.

If the new presence is simply a reincarnation, we will add this to the existing BB record; alternatively, we will cross-reference records where there is a connection. Do keep us posted: moderators conduct extensive searches, but obviously we cannot see everything.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Bilore  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
endless story... Jul 30, 2008

I also know "my gentleman" a little bit since I was in touch with people who experienced his first bankrupcy from the inside (i.e. employees) and other people who worked with/for him.

I know he even sold his first firm's equipment on e-bay thought there was a seizure and the equipment should have been sold to pay part of the debts so I wouldn't be surprised by anything he could do.

I'll wait and see; it seems that there's nothing else to do unfortunately.

Chris


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Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 00:44
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
"especially newbies" Jul 30, 2008

Good morning Bilore,

While I agree this person should be identified discreetly among us somehow, and then airlifted out to the middle of Greenland, dropped there in his Calvin Kleins with a box of matches, a guide to Danish colonies - in Farsi - and a compass, left there and told to get on with it, I am curious as to why you wish to protect newbies in particular. Why in particular?

Part of many effective learning processes necessarily involves taking it on the chin for no reason other than that "professional" people don't behave as they should. Let them learn that for themselves. Many, many newbies, I feel, are mollycoddled enough as it is, with no overheads because they're still using daddy's golf clubs and mummy's washing machine, so they can take low prices, depress the market and leave us to clear up their incompetent mess for a donut and a song, to borrow Nicole Schnell's excellent expression etc. etc. etc. etc. - for it's all been said before and so often, but I object to this priority status.

Cue a deluge of I-says from indignant independent newbies.


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Allesklar  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 08:14
English to German
+ ...
submit a support request Jul 30, 2008

As I understand the site rules, the person (I think I know whom you are referring to) should not be re-admitted:

Rule for job postings 1.10
Payment commitments must be upheld. If reports are received that agreed-upon payment has not been received from an outsourcer (whether for projects initiated via ProZ.com or other means), that outsourcer will not be permitted to make job postings. For more information, see the termination policy.


Termination

[...]

A person whose profile has been terminated will not be readmitted to ProZ.com.


I think you should submit a support request to site staff. If you can provide evidence that our old friend is behind the new identity, they would be violating their own rules (and acting against their own interest) if they didn't remove him.


Other than that, I think the best defense against people like that is to promote professionalism.

As much as I hate to admit it, he could only rip me off because I let him. There were plenty of warning signs and in these forums is all the advice you need in order to recognise them.

Anyway, I am sure he will get what he deserves and thank you for bringing it up.


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Bilore  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:44
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
why newbies? Jul 30, 2008

@Mervyn: I don't wish to protect especially newbies, I'm just saying that if he will probably target newbies as they won't make the link with his two previous identities by just knowing his name (which he might change anyway).

@allesklar: I don't think he'll register on proz again. He will contact translators privately if needed.

Now, I have contacted a moderator about it but I also feel quite powerless.

Chris


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:44
English to German
+ ...
Reference added Jul 30, 2008

Hi again,

Now, I have contacted a moderator about it

Thanks for providing the relevant information; I have added the name of the latest venture to the relevant BB record.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 00:44
Member
English to French
Nothing you can do against people going bankrupt and setting up a new company Jul 30, 2008

An ex-customer of mine went bankrupt in 12/2001 with 3700 of my euros.
The boss set up a new translation company a few years later in the same city, Paris.
He's here, alive and kicking, posting jobs and collecting 5s on his BB.
But I will never get my money back and the new company is legit. Until when?

Philippe


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