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Is there any civilised way to count the words in embedded Excel tables?
Thread poster: Astrid Elke Witte

Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Oct 17, 2008

I did practically an entire day's work for free once for a translation agency, unaware that the embedded Excel tables, which took me an entire day, were not included in the word count.

This time round, again I accepted a document - from a different agency, containing numerous embedded Excel tables. I spent ages on them again this time, and I am determined to be paid for them. It is easy to prove that they are not included in the word count of the Word document, because, if you remove a table, the word count of the document remains identical.

So far, I tried to open up a table and copy and paste it, but that could not be done. Then I tried making a page on which a table occurs into a .pdf, so that I could make it into a Word document and then easily count the words in the table. Alas, the embedded tables appear as big black squares in a .pdf.
What do you all usually do about these embedded tables? Translate them for free? Count up the characters manually, one by one? Or is there a better solution?

Astrid


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NataliaElo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
AnyCount Oct 17, 2008

http://www.anycount.com/
Anycount counts words in Excel sheets. You can download the trial version for this particular client and buy it later, if you like it.

I usually charge for words I translate, regardless of where they are: in the text or in the tables.

HTH
Natalia


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, Anycount is part of Practicount Oct 17, 2008

Thanks for your answer, Natalia! Yes, it can count words in Excel documents, but not, unfortunately in little Excel boxes which are embedded into Word documents. The reason for that is that these little embedded Excel tables look like pictures until you double-click and open them up, and any counting software also leaves them out, as if they were pictures. These embedded tables often occur in the report which accompanies annual accounts, and usually there are quite a lot of them.

I have solved the problem now. I had to print off the pages containing these embedded tables, scan them in as .pdfs, convert them into a Word document with Abbyy Fine Reader, and then count the words in the resulting Word document.

Astrid


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:17
French to English
Save as separate files Oct 17, 2008

It's not exactly a quick way, but there again neither is your printing/scanning way so, what I have done in the past is:

a) open each embedded file, and Save As... , as a separate file, in the same folder as the Word document, so I don't forget! I happen to think this is a safe practice anyway, just for the translation aspect, so it's not wasted effort, in my view

b) As I'm sure you know, if you copy and paste an entire spreadsheet from Excel into Word, it creates a Word table of the appropriate size anyway, no effort involved. So, open one blank Word document, then open each of your separate Excel files (as created in step a) using Save As...) in turn, and copy and paste the contents into the blank Word document. At the end, word count the Word document.

Obviously if you have more sophisticated word counting tools, then fine, but the basic principle applies, I think.


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 03:17
Partial member
Spanish
+ ...
As far as I know, only Transit can count embedded objects Oct 17, 2008

Not all CAT tools can analyze or translate embedded objects--believe me, I tried. Like Charlie said, you can work on them manually, but you have to be very careful once you have to import the file back into Word, you'll need to "Update" each embedded object. The only tool that does a terrific job with embedded objects (AFAIK, the only one that can see them) is Transit XV, which isn't exactly the cheapest CAT tool, but it's close to being perfect.

Check this out these threads:
www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/116947-unable_to_create_translation_file.html#958481
www.proz.com/forum/cat_tools_technical_help/91387-help_what_is_the_best_cat_tools_for_%20embedded_text_in_diagrams_ole_in_word.html

Good luck,

Claudia


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Adi Al-Ka'bi
Local time: 12:17
Arabic to English
+ ...
Total Word Count Oct 18, 2008

Inside each embedded Excel Sheet click rt. mouse followed by choosing "Worksheet Object" followed by choosing "Convert" followed by choosing "Microsoft Excel Worksheet". This will convert each tables to words that get counted by word count. Do this on a copy of the file so that you avoid messing up the original file/tables.

[Edited at 2008-10-18 00:32]


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Tomás Cano Binder, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:17
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Trados does not count them... Oct 18, 2008

With TagEditor you can count and translate the contents of PowerPoint embedded images by converting them to an Office Graphic in Word, but unfortunately this is not the case with Excel. I have just tried with my Trados 2007 and TagEditor does not open place the text from the embedded Excel file as part of the translatable text.

I would go for the option of saving the worksheets as separate files...


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks! So there is a way, after all Oct 18, 2008

Many thanks, Charlie, Claudia, Adi Al-Ka'bi, Tomás!

I will investigate all your suggestions, ready for the next time it happens. I also have a feeling that, on this occasion, the agency did not include it in their word count when charging the end client, and it is obviously better to bring up the topic before accepting the job rather than at the point of writing the invoice. I send the invoice by post, so I expect I might hear more on the subject in a few days.

Astrid


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RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
German to English
Why bother? Oct 18, 2008

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote: What do you all usually do about these embedded tables? Translate them for free? Count up the characters manually, one by one? Or is there a better solution? Astrid


Charge them by the hour, just like standalone Excel files, Powerpoints, graphics, etc. It's the only fair and feasible pricing model. The word count is surely of purely academic interest only. It might give you a rough idea of how long you'll need, but no more than that.

Robin


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Paula James  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:17
French to English
+ ...
Practicount Oct 18, 2008

I have practicount and it has an option for counting words embedded objects, which you have to tick, from what I remember......
I'm fairly sure I've used it for embedded excel tables before.


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Ken Cox  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:17
German to English
+ ...
PractiCount Oct 18, 2008

Yes, PractiCount will do this if the worksheets are embedded as worksheet objects (but not if they are embedded as pictures). The default setting (i.e. as installed) is with counting of embedded objects disabled, but it can be enabled on the Settings tab (and you can even select the depth of embedded objects to be counted).

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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is that a more sophisticated version of PractiCount? Oct 18, 2008

I did not find an option under settings, and I still do not. However, I only have the standard version. Do you both have a more expensive version?

Astrid


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Paula James  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:17
French to English
+ ...
Applications tab Oct 18, 2008

I have the standard version too, it's under Settings, then "Applications", then under Document sections, with things like textboxes - I've just checked.

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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Paula, found it! Oct 18, 2008

The option seems to be ticked, as well. However, it did not count the embedded tables in my document.

Astrid


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Ivana Friis Wilson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:17
Member (2008)
English to Danish
+ ...
Metatexis Oct 19, 2008

Download the trial. Metatexis will convert xcl files to Word and back.

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