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Low rate, but bonus if you do a good job and deliver on time
Thread poster: LegalTransform

LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:22
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Nov 18, 2008

Wow! An "outsourcer" just posted a job requesting a specialist and is generously paying $250.00 for 5,000 words (or .05 a word). To top it off, this is a rush job and the legibility of the document is bad. But don't worry, they are offering a $50 bonus if you do a good job and deliver on time. Maybe if they paid better in the first place, they would not have to offer such bribes. Even with the "bonus", the rate is still way too low for anyone to take seriously.

What is even crazier is that this "outsourcer" has over 256 positive Blue Board ratings from supposedly satisfied people. To quote Bill Cosby, "Come On, People!" - What is wrong with you? Why do you allow yourselves to be taken advantage of like this?

[Edited at 2008-11-18 00:39 GMT]


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The Misha
Local time: 12:22
Russian to English
+ ...
Oh, just let it go ... Nov 18, 2008

I stopped getting all pumped up about this kind of stupidity long ago. You know, no good deed goes unpunished, eventually they will all get what is due them, both those who post such nonsense and those who respond to it.

P.S. When was the last time you got a job through ProZ anyway? Me, I can't remember, really.


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xxxDr.G.MD

Local time: 18:22
Just ask Nov 18, 2008

a lawyer if he/she would agree to such a proposal? Probably not. Translators continue to undersell themselves and their professional services, even post 256 times that they are suppoedly satisfied with that pitance - come on!!! Translators, wake up!

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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:22
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Blue Board Nov 18, 2008

J this "outsourcer" has over 256 positive Blue Board ratings from supposedly satisfied people.


256 positive ratings is too many and would set my alarm bells ringing.

I know of translators who hadn't been paid, and made a negative BB comment about the outsourcer. Then the outsourcer offered to pay them - on condition they changed the negative comment to a positive one and gave them a 5. If you look at those outsourcers' BB ratings, they're glowingly positive.

I'm not saying all, or even many outsourcers and translators do this, but I know it happens.

Positive comments and high scores on Blue Board are not necessarily a completely reliable indicator.

As for the low rate + bonus offer, no serious translator would take it up.


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:22
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Causes administrative problems Nov 18, 2008

Once you have issued your invoice, you have to be paid the exact amount specified on the invoice, otherwise it creates extra administrative and book-keeping work.

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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:22
English to Portuguese
+ ...
A typical exception Nov 18, 2008

Dr.G.MD wrote:
a lawyer if he/she would agree to such a proposal? Probably not. Translators continue to undersell themselves and their professional services, even post 256 times that they are suppoedly satisfied with that pitance - come on!!! Translators, wake up!


Sorry, Doc, I think you picked the poor example.

If, for instance, you are suing a company for having caused you damages, and your lawyer really believes you are entitled to a sizeable indemnification, s/he may agree to charge a fee that will only cover their costs, plus a generous percentage of what you eventually receive from them. This is quite normal, and there are often two different percentages, depending on the case being settled in court or directly.

On the other hand, I wouldn't take chances on a doctor who'd operate me for some nominal fee, and take a later bonus contingent on the operation having been successful.

From what you folks said here, some agencies are trying to turn WWA scores into a commodity market. Soon they will be offering 3¢/word standard, 4¢/word if you give us a WWA=5 on the Blue Board.


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Agua  Identity Verified
Spain
English to Spanish
+ ...
Our fault... Nov 18, 2008

Hello,

I happen to have worked with this particular outsourcer when he was starting: good rates and fast payment. Thus my 5... now I do not even bother to reply to the offers. Reasons? Us translators have sold ourselves too cheap and rates keep going down, because, obviously they have been offered or have been accepted.

Back to work,

Mar


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:22
English to German
+ ...
Evidence? Nov 18, 2008

Tom,
We had this discussion before - I find it a bit sad that you keep portraying the Blue Board as fundamentally flawed whenever the opportunity arises.

Tom in London wrote:

J this "outsourcer" has over 256 positive Blue Board ratings from supposedly satisfied people.


256 positive ratings is too many and would set my alarm bells ringing.

Why?

I know of translators who hadn't been paid, and made a negative BB comment about the outsourcer. Then the outsourcer offered to pay them - on condition they changed the negative comment to a positive one and gave them a 5. If you look at those outsourcers' BB ratings, they're glowingly positive.

I'm not saying all, or even many outsourcers and translators do this, but I know it happens.

Once again, if it happens, report it to ProZ.com staff or a moderator.

The Blue Board is not perfect, but it has developed into a very valuable tool used by many members and users. Let's address the shortcomings, instead of portraying isolated cases as being a general problem.

Now, can we please get back to the topic?

Best regards,
Ralf


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Paul Adie  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Spanish to English
+ ...
I'm with Tom. Nov 18, 2008

256 glowing reviews? When I worked in a fairly large translation agency, I don't think we went over using even 50 translators, and we always had work coming in. And it's highly improbable that out of the supposed 50, all of them would put up a top-rate review. As ever, I could be wrong, but it would smell fishy to me. It would reek in fact.

Happy translating!

Paul

Edited to say that I still like the Blueboard, and use it for valuable information!

[Edited at 2008-11-18 11:57 GMT]


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:22
French to English
working AGAIN Nov 18, 2008

Agua wrote:
I happen to have worked with this particular outsourcer when he was starting: good rates and fast payment. Thus my 5... now I do not even bother to reply to the offers.

Surely then, quite literally, your "likelihood of working again" with this outsourcer is close to zero?
Do you not think you should amend your rating to reflect this?

Given what has been said about the number of freelancers an agency is likely to use, perhaps those running the site could consider the possibility of a reminder/refresh system for agencies with > X ratings that are also > Y years old, to see if the ratings still apply. If the freelancer fails to confirm/amend the rating, a note is automatically added to this effect, and only confirmed/recent ratings are used to calculate the score.

Just a rough idea.


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Josée Desbiens
Canada
Local time: 12:22
English to French
Nice poll question Nov 18, 2008

The Misha wrote:

P.S. When was the last time you got a job through ProZ anyway?


This would make a really interesting poll question.


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LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:22
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
ojos que no ven, corazón que sí siente Nov 18, 2008

Yes, but on the other hand, I do believe that bringing up this subject every now and again is having a noticeable impact on the decline in such offers (at least from my perspective) and certainly on the number of people who unwittingly accept such jobs.



The Misha wrote:

I stopped getting all pumped up about this kind of stupidity long ago. You know, no good deed goes unpunished, eventually they will all get what is due them, both those who post such nonsense and those who respond to it.

P.S. When was the last time you got a job through ProZ anyway? Me, I can't remember, really.


[Edited at 2008-11-18 14:10 GMT]


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:22
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I did Nov 18, 2008

----

[Edited at 2008-11-18 14:57 GMT]


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xxx1279
Local time: 12:22
I'm glad this was a rant Nov 18, 2008

Jeff,

When I saw the title of your post, I thought you were going to be asking if you should accept a job with these conditions. I clicked on the thread just so I could say, "NOOooooo - run away fast!" Anyway, I was very relieved to see that you already knew that.

Outsourcers who use gimmicks or complicated payment schemes also tend to mistreat their translators and/or have poor payment practices. Unfortunately, that was something I had to learn from experience early in my freelance career. May this rant save someone else from the same fate...

Clare


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