| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Do you deserve the rate you charge? Thread poster: Viktoria Gimbe
|
|---|
| Using proper typography is not that easy | Jan 6, 2009 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
Anne, by typography, I mean more or less what Nicole said, but I have my own examples, since I translate in different language pairs from Nicole's.
In my case, what bothers me is when a translator translates into French, and every time they use the French quotation marks ("«" and "»"), they either stick them next to the word without any spacing (wrong) or they use regular spaces between the quotation mark and the word it is associated with (wrong). You don't even have to be a translator or a grammar teacher to know that French quotation marks are separated from the phrases they surround by non-breaking spaces, in order for the quotation marks to stay on the same line as the quoted phrase (in case the phrase is at the end of a line). Even worse, some people (I was going to say translators, but I don't think they are worthy of the title) simply use the English quotation marks in French text! Come on, guys!
That's what I mean by typography.
Punctuation is part of the broader domain of typography.
........... Punctuation is not a subset of typography. Punctuation is much more critical to rendering the meaning of a sentence than typography. By some coincidence, I just read the part of the Wikipedia article on dashes regarding the proper typograhical use of em dash in English. Somehow, I don't think that having a dash surrounded by spaces, by "hair spaces" (I didn't even know such a thing existed) or using an open en dash instead of a closed em dash is going to change significantly the way the reader perceives the thoughts of the author. Whereas a misplaced or missing comma can be quite detrimental, even in English with its quite lax punctuation rules.
And apart from some broken visual appeal, is it really critical that a quotation mark is left dangling on a different line from the text it is supposed to enclose? It is still a mistake, of course, but not a critical one, like totally missing quotation marks would be, for example.
However, I think that the problem with typography is not as much that people don't know what the rules are (although, I'm sure, there are plenty that really don't). It's that people don't know how to apply the rules via a text editor. Most of the "normal" people have no idea about different kinds of hyphens, quotation marks and spaces. Translators at least will have to have come across different quoting styles (e. g. in English both single and double quotes are commonly used). But having an idea about "that long hyphen" is one thing, knowing that it is called "em dash" is another, and knowing that one can actually have the same symbol inserted in their text is yet another. The same applies to non-breaking spaces. Heck, I've seen plenty of tables built with spaces, not even tabs, between columns. Not to mention text where the identation and even alignment to the right was achieved with spaces as well.
It is just that most users of text editors use them as simple typewriters. And I don't really blame translators that some of them are not willing to explore the possibilities of the computer software. It's just the way they look at technology in general. And I've seen this attitude to computers in particular in all kinds of professions, not just translators.
So I'm willing to cut the users - translators included - much more slack. I will first assume that they don't know how to insert a non-breaking space (probably because they don't even know that there is such a thing in the computer), before concluding that they don't know how to use quotation marks.
| | | | | CAT tool helps us reduce costs | Jan 7, 2009 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote: Tim wrote:
Why should I have to use a CAT tool? You don't have to. In fact, many of us (Nicole, for instance, based on one of her recent posts in another thread) know that CAT tools can actually be a hindrance in some cases. ...... However, clients expect, and in many cases require, that you use a CAT tool. Even direct clients seem to increasingly be misled into believing that if you don't use a CAT tool, you are not professional (thanks, SDL!). There are two rationales behind my including the CAT tool item in the matrix: 1. Clients expect or even require its use. 2. If the use of a CAT tool should influence your rates in any way, then it should be upwards, not downwards. There are two main advantages in using a CAT tool: 1. Better consistency 2. Faster turnaround Both of those benefits are eventually reaped by the client, not by the translator. Considering the investment in terms of money and time to learn to use the thing, it is only fair that you charge for it. By including the CAT tool item in the matrix, you can charge two cents more (as per the hypothetical matrix).
Dear Viktoria,
I see your point, yet I see the CAT tool differently. It is a way to reduce your costs. Like you said its presence enables better consistency and faster turnaround. For this reason, leave alone the extra 2 cents, I can even consider reducing my price bid to make the service more attractive (ideally). Not dramatically reduced price can also earn you quite a huge return of income which you may have experienced.
Lovely regards,
Binnur
[Edited at 2009-01-07 08:08 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-01-07 17:47 GMT]
| | | | Anne Brackenborough (X) 
Germany
Local time: 10:43
German to English
| die Katze im Sack | Jan 7, 2009 |
Binnur Tuncel van Pomeren wrote:
I can even consider reducing my costs to make the service more attractive (ideally).
Don't forget, though, that you're not just paying for purchasing your CAT system, you're also spending time learning to use it, and your customer is paying you for applying those additional skills. A CAT system allows even greater consistency than when you use tabular glossaries, read through and compare with old translations, etc. (Whether that makes your translation better as a whole than someone not using CAT depends on how important exact consistency is, and of course on your other skills...)
Viktoria wrote: There are two rationales behind my including the CAT tool item in the matrix:
1. Clients expect or even require its use.
I do have one agency which requires CAT, but as for direct client ... well, I have still come across some who think that CAT is the same as machine translation. I had a frustrating phone conversation with one would-be client where, despite my attempts to explain, she basically suggested I was some kind of con artist using Babelfish ...!
| | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 11:43
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
| Thank you Viktoria! | Jan 7, 2009 |
What a great way to demonstrate this. Maybe the clients should be sent this list and they could tick the boxes and calculate how much they can afford. Then you would really have black on white about what they bargained for and what they got.
| | |
|
|
|
darkokoporcic
Slovenia
Local time: 10:43
Member (2005)
German to Slovenian
+ ...
| Keep your Dollars | Jan 7, 2009 |
Lingua 5B wrote: Not sure if it is just coincidental, but I mostly worked with overseas clients ( USA or Australia, even Asia), and they all prefer USD as currency. I have two separate bank wire accounts ( for EUR and USD), and I haven't used the Euro account so far. The only problem with USD is that its value is going up and down lately, so sometimes I don't know whether to keep my USD earnings on the account, or to cash them write away in my local BAM currency  . As USD value will perhaps go up, but it may also decline in value.
I suggest you keep your USD because the forecast rate for this year is around 1,2 USD to 1 EUR.
| | | | MariusV
Lithuania
Local time: 11:43
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
| You get what you deserve | Jan 7, 2009 |
In other words, if one gets the rate one charges, i.e. these rates are "justified" in the eyes of the clients (i.e. the clients gladly pay those rates), where is the problem?
The issue of being underpaid, i.e. of a possibility to get a higher rate, is a separate topic, I think. But as long as one is happy with the rate one gets, no need for philosophies. And if one is not happy with the rates one gets (not asks), it is again a very big separate topic. All in all, in my opinion, if o... See more In other words, if one gets the rate one charges, i.e. these rates are "justified" in the eyes of the clients (i.e. the clients gladly pay those rates), where is the problem?
The issue of being underpaid, i.e. of a possibility to get a higher rate, is a separate topic, I think. But as long as one is happy with the rate one gets, no need for philosophies. And if one is not happy with the rates one gets (not asks), it is again a very big separate topic. All in all, in my opinion, if one works real well, above the average, he/she can always get a good rate (also above the average). All the rest is "2+2" of marketing - no one obligates to work for underpaying clients. Best to find those clients who can pay what you really deserve (the real price for your service)...
As for those "matrixes" - in general, these are good things. But my approach is that one shall deal with clients more individually, i.e. these matrixes cannot be applied on the Procrustean bed principle...Simply because the same matrix can work super for one client, and can be ineffective to another client. Because one client can really value the CATs you have, the terminology glossaries, the fact that you check the translated texts and ask questions during the course of work. But some clients will not want to bother if you have CAT, they will not bother about your glossaries, and all those things in general on HOW you do the job because they will simply be interested in the final result. All in all, both "types" of the clients pay to you for WHAT is done (the result), not for HOW it is done (the process). And those things related to the process can only be used as a self-marketing set and I do not see their direct relation to "justifying" one's rates. These would sound more like an excuse "I want a higher rate/more money - not because I just want more money, but I do have NUMEROUS reasons for that, half of which, you, my dear client, cannot understand because you are not a linguist. You do not need to justify the higher rate by your process. You need to justify that by the end result and CUSTOMER SATISFACTION based on the result.
[Edited at 2009-01-07 14:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 10:43
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Darko Koporcic wrote: Lingua 5B wrote: Not sure if it is just coincidental, but I mostly worked with overseas clients ( USA or Australia, even Asia), and they all prefer USD as currency. I have two separate bank wire accounts ( for EUR and USD), and I haven't used the Euro account so far. The only problem with USD is that its value is going up and down lately, so sometimes I don't know whether to keep my USD earnings on the account, or to cash them write away in my local BAM currency . As USD value will perhaps go up, but it may also decline in value. I suggest you keep your USD because the forecast rate for this year is around 1,2 USD to 1 EUR.
Thanks a lot, I appreciate that information. I'll keep it in mind, hoping my earnings will rise merely by USD rising in value, he he.
Btw, I just realized I had written " write away", instead of " right away". Oh my, that'd be -1000 USD, by Victoria's matrix.
I assure you I always proofread my work at least three times, which I rarely do with my forum postings.
< blushes >
[Edited at 2009-01-07 15:15 GMT]
| | | | | Similar philosophy | Jan 7, 2009 |
MariusV wrote:
... my approach is that one shall deal with clients more individually... You do not need to justify the higher rate by your process. You need to justify that by the end result and CUSTOMER SATISFACTION based on the result.
For the most part I agree with you and follow a similar approach. However, V's checkist and some of the addenda to it are useful resources to draw on when making a presentation to a new (or perhaps even an old) client of what you propose to do. I do something similar and describe the step-by-step process for a job and why some steps are particularly important, because it helps build customer trust and confidence and distinguishes my service (for better or worse) from that of others who may have been approached.
Sometimes the process is very important to the rate. When I can document that a job will be delivered after editing by a second qualified translator and a discussion of all changes, it justifies a significantly higher price. Other checklist items may be similarly important to the client. But as you pointed out, obviously one must deal with the cases individually and point the prospects to Walmart if they don't want to pay for premium quality.
| | |
|
|
|
| translation agencies and their mistakes | Jan 14, 2009 |
Guys, I love this checklist. I have listed most of these points in the past for explaining my rate.
I tried to explain to my customers that machine translation is something completely different from what we do with Cat tools - they do not understand or don't want to, for whatever reason.
One even said I was not allowed to use one. Isn't that ridiculous?
And about the rate. Well, I am mostly working for an Internet translation agency based in Germany and the... See more Guys, I love this checklist. I have listed most of these points in the past for explaining my rate.
I tried to explain to my customers that machine translation is something completely different from what we do with Cat tools - they do not understand or don't want to, for whatever reason.
One even said I was not allowed to use one. Isn't that ridiculous?
And about the rate. Well, I am mostly working for an Internet translation agency based in Germany and they, at least, make a difference between semi-professional and professional translation and proofreading. They charge fairly small prices - they got an instant price calculator and I admit I have used this on texts I was to translate/correct and saw that the profit margin was comparatively small. Yet I've come to think that they simply don't know what freelancers charge.
Just yesterday I had a question regarding a formulation in German > English translation (I'm a German native). I asked them to ask the CUSTOMER what this was to mean. Suffice to say they didn't. They just wrote me a message - oh, I don't know, just have a guess. And so I did. I had told them that this could be awfully wrong - it was of no interest.
What do you say about that? How could they not be interested in good quality?! Well, I need the money.
(They have many spelling mistakes on their homepage - I told them about that and they didn't even answer that message. Their messages are full of spelling mistakes and I honestly have to resist telling them about those.)
Anyway, have a nice day ▲ Collapse
| | | |
I even got corrected the right hyphens, quotation marks and commas I put.
Those commas even changed the meaning of the text.
Thank you very much. This happens when you can't communicate with the corrector, i.e. s/he does not communicate with you. Or when you can't look at the proofread translation
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 04:43
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Do you deserve the rate you charge? | Feb 22, 2013 |
Bump because I believe this thread deserves a second read four years later.
[Edited at 2013-02-22 17:18 GMT]
| | | | | Of course I do | Feb 25, 2013 |
I absolutely deserve the rate I charge - whatever it is. Because this is the rate we freely agreed on with the customer.
| | |
|
|
|
| Dollar to euro exchange rate | Feb 26, 2013 |
Hello Darko,
that would be very good news but where did you hear that? I've been fluctuating for years along with the dollar and this would make a significant difference for me.
Thanks for any links or sources!
Monica
Darko Koporcic wrote: Lingua 5B wrote: Not sure if it is just coincidental, but I mostly worked with overseas clients ( USA or Australia, even Asia), and they all prefer USD as currency. I have two separate bank wire accounts ( for EUR and USD), and I haven't used the Euro account so far. The only problem with USD is that its value is going up and down lately, so sometimes I don't know whether to keep my USD earnings on the account, or to cash them write away in my local BAM currency . As USD value will perhaps go up, but it may also decline in value. I suggest you keep your USD because the forecast rate for this year is around 1,2 USD to 1 EUR.
| | | |
Monica Paolillo wrote: Hello Darko, that would be very good news but where did you hear that? I've been fluctuating for years along with the dollar and this would make a significant difference for me. Thanks for any links or sources! Monica Darko Koporcic wrote: Lingua 5B wrote: Not sure if it is just coincidental, but I mostly worked with overseas clients ( USA or Australia, even Asia), and they all prefer USD as currency. I have two separate bank wire accounts ( for EUR and USD), and I haven't used the Euro account so far. The only problem with USD is that its value is going up and down lately, so sometimes I don't know whether to keep my USD earnings on the account, or to cash them write away in my local BAM currency . As USD value will perhaps go up, but it may also decline in value. I suggest you keep your USD because the forecast rate for this year is around 1,2 USD to 1 EUR.
Monica: That post was from 2009
And Jeff: Thank you for resuscitating the thread. I've read through all the posts, and there is really a lot of good and useful input there.
[Edited at 2013-02-26 13:26 GMT]
| | | |
(Couldn't find out how to delete a post. So I just do replace it with this one.)
[Edited at 2013-02-26 13:28 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Do you deserve the rate you charge? | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
