| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Banning an outsourcer is useless Thread poster: ksbtranslation
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Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 14:53
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
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| Now what is the correct answer? | Mar 25, 2009 |
If you don't say yes this minute, we will give the job to somebody who will...
If you don't accept the rate, we will give the job to somebody who will do it for half that...
If you don't accept the deadline, we will give the job to somebody who will have it ready by tomorrow...
The correct answer is: Have a nice day and tell Mr. Somebody I said hi.
That busy old Mr. Somebody who is always on the other line ready to take all the jobs on any terms.
| | | | ksbtranslation 
Indonesia
Local time: 18:53
Indonesian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Do they look like a fraud to you? | Mar 25, 2009 |
1. Person A works in Company Z. Since his company does not have any account in Proz he signs up as Company Z without its consent. He puts the contact number and address of his company in his profile. Other members should consider Person A as Company Z although the job posting has nothing to do with this company.
2. Person B is a translator. He is assigned by Company Y to do several translation jobs. Since his jobs are overloaded, he decides to outsource the jobs to other translat... See more 1. Person A works in Company Z. Since his company does not have any account in Proz he signs up as Company Z without its consent. He puts the contact number and address of his company in his profile. Other members should consider Person A as Company Z although the job posting has nothing to do with this company.
2. Person B is a translator. He is assigned by Company Y to do several translation jobs. Since his jobs are overloaded, he decides to outsource the jobs to other translators in Proz. However Company Y does not have any account in Proz. So he signs up as Company Y and puts the contact number and address of Company Y in his profile without its consent. Other members who take his job should consider Person B as Company Y.
3. Person C works in Agency X which has been banned to post any jobs in Proz. However he has some jobs to outsource. So he signs up in Proz as any company whatsoever which has no account in Proz -- say Company X -- and puts the contact number and address of this Company in his profile. Other members who take his job should consider Person C as Company X although the job posting has nothing to do with this company.
[Edited at 2009-03-25 13:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Taija Salo wrote:
If you don't say yes this minute, we will give the job to somebody who will...
If you don't accept the rate, we will give the job to somebody who will do it for half that...
If you don't accept the deadline, we will give the job to somebody who will have it ready by tomorrow...
The correct answer is: Have a nice day and tell Mr. Somebody I said hi.
Yes, I completely agree. We must be flexible as any other business, but threats are unacceptable in a healthy business situation!
| | | | Margreet Logmans (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 13:53
English to Dutch
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| Never trust a profile just like that | Mar 25, 2009 |
ksbtranslation wrote:
1. Person A works in Company Z...
2. Person B is a translator...
3. Person C works in Agency X...
You should never rely on just the information in the profile. Always check the Blue Board, jobs history, company web site, email address, etc. etc.
Anyway, you're fighting a losing battle here. Let it go.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 13:53
French to German
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| Checking IP addresses | Mar 25, 2009 |
ksbtranslation wrote:
1. Person A .....
2. Person B .....
3. Person C .....
[Edited at 2009-03-25 13:28 GMT]
Then these persons are really, really free to do whatever they want in their companies without these being liable? Surprising!
When I have any kind of doubt about an Internet job, I check the IP addresses. Helps a lot!
Laurent K.
| | | | | The bottom line - who's paying? | Mar 25, 2009 |
ksbtranslation wrote:
Confirming the authenticity should take time and it is not competitive during this difficult time. I hope that in the future it will be Proz duty to verify the data input by its members. Otherwise, a banned outsourcer will be able to sign up as a new clean member and input fake company in his/her profile.
So you're not prepared to pay (with your time) for some basic due diligence? But would you be happy to pay (with your money) ProZ for this service?
Doing this kind of due diligence on a global scale would involve a massive amount of work. And that work would have to be done by a human being. In some countries this might be quite straight forward, in other countries not. They minimum needed would require ProZ to:
a) buy the service from a credit rating company with access to multiple official global databases
b) have an employee/employees use multiple publicly available official global databases
As you can see, even in case b there's money involved (to pay for the employee's/employees's salary as well as other costs incurred by an employer).
These costs would be, at least, annually recurring as credit ratings and other important info about potential clients change. Even if ProZ limited this service to translation agencies and all freelancers who might occasionally outsource, can you imaging the cost? Add every company registered globally, add in potential private clients and stir.
Would you prefer to pay for this (which might include due diligence for xillions of agencies, companies and private persons you will never ever hear about, let alone consider working for) with hard cash? Would you not rather pay with your valuable time to do due diligence yourself for a much smaller number of potential clients?
Last time I looked ProZ was not a charity, if they added this kind of service they would have to find ways to recoup their expenses. Advertiser are very unlikely, particularly "during this difficult time", to up the rates they pay. ProZ's other streams of revenue? Basically only one - us the members and the fees we pay.
Edited for a few grammatical errors
[Edited at 2009-03-25 23:37 GMT]
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 06:53
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Part-time translators unfairly maligned | Mar 26, 2009 |
[quote]ScottishWildCat wrote:
Furthermore, the absence of any check on freelancers encourages moonlight work, low rates and amateurish translations.
I hope that by "moonlight" work, Laurent is referring to students who think that they they can pick up some extra money after a few foreign language classes, and that he did not intend to disparage all part-time translators. I'm sure that leaving full-time employment to pursue freelance work is easier in countries with national health insurance plans, but it is crushingly difficult in the US, where replacing an employer-subsidized plan (if you are lucky enough to have one) can cost as much as $12-15k a year, and may in some cases even be next-to-impossible to do. The only hope most entrepreneurs have to alleviate these costs is to join a spouse's employer-subsidized plan, which might also not be possible. So please don't paint all part-timers with the same dirty brush. My clients just care about the quality of my work and my professionalism, and my qualifications speak for themselves. With the global economy running around-the-clock, what does "part-time" really mean anymore? In any case, with the economy the way it is, I never know if I might just be joining the ranks of "full-time" freelancers sooner than I think! )
[Edited at 2009-03-26 18:16 GMT]
| | | | ksbtranslation
Indonesia
Local time: 18:53
Indonesian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | I can't let it go. I will chase her till the end of the world! | Mar 27, 2009 |
Margreet Logmans wrote:
Anyway, you're fighting a losing battle here. Let it go.
If I lost less than $100 and was the only victim, I would let it go. But she stole thousands of dollars from me. .
In fact I had given an alert before she posted another job but it was too late. The job moderator only asked me to push another member who became a victim to post a non-payment report. Then appeared four more victims.
Thanks.
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Milos Prudek
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:53
English to Czech
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ksbtranslation wrote:
But she stole thousands of dollars from me.
She claimed to be a Google employee. Did you send an email to an address with the google.com domain and did you get response for such email?
| | | | ksbtranslation
Indonesia
Local time: 18:53
Indonesian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | That's just an analogy | Apr 2, 2009 |
Milos Prudek wrote:
She claimed to be a Google employee. Did you send an email to an address with the google.com domain and did you get response for such email?
Hi Milos,
She is not from Google. The truth is she claimed to be an employee of a free-email provider in China. But the company has nothing to do with this project and does not even know her.
Now I have a clue that she may be linked with a banned outsourcer. It was obvious from a small test we completed upon delivery of the first project, which mentioned the name of this outsourcer. I have sent email to this outsourcer but I got no response.
There are 7 members reported as the victims of this scam, including us.
Beware.
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 13:53
English to German
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| proz.bb is only a reporting facility.. | Apr 3, 2009 |
Hi! as proz.,com keeps advocating that they only a show case, you need to take care of yourself and your interests. BB moderation studies the issue but not truly take care of the trouble. BR Brandis
| | | | | dont understand | Apr 9, 2009 |
Hi ksbtranslation,
So sorry to hear about your situation. I know how it feels to be constantly obsessed with an idea that you may not get your money. It tears your mind apart, taking your sleep away. But dont let this idea steal even more money from you by distracting your attention from other potential jobs. Income you may receive from future jobs can easily make for the losses you incurred. At the same time I agree that this 'outsourcer' should not get away with this, and I apprec... See more Hi ksbtranslation,
So sorry to hear about your situation. I know how it feels to be constantly obsessed with an idea that you may not get your money. It tears your mind apart, taking your sleep away. But dont let this idea steal even more money from you by distracting your attention from other potential jobs. Income you may receive from future jobs can easily make for the losses you incurred. At the same time I agree that this 'outsourcer' should not get away with this, and I appreciate your effort to alert the community about that.
However, what I can't understand from your comments is why, if you know his IP-address and have narrowed down your search to a particular place on the map, you cant figure out what ISP may use this IP-address. Then, you may try and elicit some information about who this IP was assigned to. I hope you understand that a person using such appalling payment practices can use a proxy or anonymizer, which are readily available today. So, you IP search may lead to nothing.
Have I missed something?
Andrei
[Edited at 2009-04-09 17:16 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-04-09 17:19 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-04-09 17:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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ksbtranslation
Indonesia
Local time: 18:53
Indonesian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | It is obvious from their test translation | Apr 10, 2009 |
Andrei Yefimov wrote:
Hi ksbtranslation,
So sorry to hear about your situation. I know how it feels to be constantly obsessed with an idea that you may not get your money. It tears your mind apart, taking your sleep away. But dont let this idea steal even more money from you by distracting your attention from other potential jobs. Income you may receive from future jobs can easily make for the losses you incurred. At the same time I agree that this 'outsourcer' should not get away with this, and I appreciate your effort to alert the community about that.
However, what I can't understand from your comments is why, if you know his IP-address and have narrowed down your search to a particular place on the map, you cant figure out what ISP may use this IP-address. Then, you may try and elicit some information about who this IP was assigned to. I hope you understand that a person using such appalling payment practices can use a proxy or anonymizer, which are readily available today. So, you IP search may lead to nothing.
Have I missed something?
Andrei
Thanks Andrei. At first we doubted that we would be able to track down this outsourcer because all of the information are fake.
It was a coincidence that we found a small test that we did upon the project delivery and its file name lead us to a Chinese translation agency which has been banned in various translation directories, including Proz.com. This arouse my curiousity. I gave an alert to Proz.com but I still did not know how to prove it. All I got is the file name.
Thanks to Mr. Mohamed Mehenoun, the other Proz member who advised me to locate the IP as posted in http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/128416-how_to_deal_with_a_hard_to_reach_client.html, I came up with the idea of checking her IP. Although her IP is different from that of the Chinese agency, they reside in the same location if we checked their maps through http://www.infosniper.net/.
Some of the seven victims have tried by all means to contact this trouble-maker but they did not respond. They should have denied it if they did not know anything about this outsourcer.
Now I am hiring a collection agency. I hope they would be successful.
Best regards,
Iwan
| | | | | Present practice is well satisfying | Jun 6, 2009 |
To my experience, the system set-up by Proz is perfect professional and enough helpful for translators as well as outsourcers. For topic in context, Proz is a global platform and not a middleman, they can not take responsibility of either of them, nor the can verify translators, vendors, outsourcers globally.
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