| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5] > | Why are rates so low? Thread poster: Mariela Diaz-Butler
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Hello all:
This is my first time posting in this forum, so bear with me if I don't make much sense. I am just recently beginning to follow some of the threads here, and started monitoring some of the job postings that come up in Proz. One of the things I have been astonished to notice is that it seems that a great deal of the outsourcers posting jobs are also posting how much they are willing to pay, and the payment usually is a pittance compared to the work that is requested. Obvi... See more Hello all:
This is my first time posting in this forum, so bear with me if I don't make much sense. I am just recently beginning to follow some of the threads here, and started monitoring some of the job postings that come up in Proz. One of the things I have been astonished to notice is that it seems that a great deal of the outsourcers posting jobs are also posting how much they are willing to pay, and the payment usually is a pittance compared to the work that is requested. Obviously, there are freelancers out there willing to do the work under such terms, because otherwise there wouldn't be so many of such postings.
I guess what is puzzling to me is that, as a previous project manager for a well know U.S. agency, I know the rates we paid our translators (at least in my working pair, which is Eng Spa) were at least twice as much as those that I see posted around here. Accordingly, I set my rates to be lower than those that I knew, so as to make myself competitive, but I must admit they are still nowhere near what I see out here (4 U.S. cents/word? Really?!?).
So, must I compromise what I believe to be a fair compensation in order to get clients? It is disturbing to me, because I know for a fact, that agencies do charge more than twice and sometimes trice what they pay their translators.
What has been your experience? How do you all deal with this? I have been a freelancer for a bit over a year (since I left my agency), and so far, the only client I have is my old agency! (which is a really good thing, as I do get steady work from them, but still...).
Help?!?
Mariela
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-10-03 03:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Russell Jones 
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:42
Italian to English
Hi Mariela
I'm afraid your first post here may be the start of one of those mammoth threads.
However, if you can, I would advise you to listen to site founder Henry Dotterer's presentation to Wednesday's Virtual conference - remaining on the site for 12 months.
Most work generated here does not pass through the jobs system. Outsourcers select their translators from the directories.
Secondly, where competitive quotes are sought, the lowest bid is hard... See more Hi Mariela
I'm afraid your first post here may be the start of one of those mammoth threads.
However, if you can, I would advise you to listen to site founder Henry Dotterer's presentation to Wednesday's Virtual conference - remaining on the site for 12 months.
Most work generated here does not pass through the jobs system. Outsourcers select their translators from the directories.
Secondly, where competitive quotes are sought, the lowest bid is hardly ever selected; most outsourcers are looking for professionals who take a pride in their work and submitting a very low bid does not fit that profile.
It never pays to undersell yourself - and your fellow translators won't thank you for it either.
Typical rates charged in different language pairs are visible to paying Members under the Jobs tab.
[Edited at 2009-10-02 14:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 03:42
English to Spanish
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In memoriam | You get what you pay for | Oct 2, 2009 |
The simple answer is that there are many people out there who would rather pay peanuts for a job that looks like it was done by a monkey.
If you're good, you stay out of that league.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 11:42
French to German
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| Why are rates so low? | Oct 2, 2009 |
Hi Mariela,
why are rates so low? Because some colleagues out there accept them. If nobody accepted to work under let's say USD 0.15 per word (be it source or target), the agency clients that are to be found all over the Internet would be reconsidering their commercial strategy before making unrealistic promises to end clients.
Furthermore, and to somewhat take over Russell's post, one of the impressions I gathered from the virtual conference is that serious and reputed LSP's... See more Hi Mariela,
why are rates so low? Because some colleagues out there accept them. If nobody accepted to work under let's say USD 0.15 per word (be it source or target), the agency clients that are to be found all over the Internet would be reconsidering their commercial strategy before making unrealistic promises to end clients.
Furthermore, and to somewhat take over Russell's post, one of the impressions I gathered from the virtual conference is that serious and reputed LSP's also begin to worry about the continuous emergence of bottom-rates agencies, no matter where they are located.
[Edited at 2009-10-02 15:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Elías Sauza
Mexico
Local time: 03:42
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| You have responded | Oct 2, 2009 |
Rates are so low because there are translators who work for those rates. I just saw a job announced here for 2 and 3 USD cents. But thinking further in your question, I ask myself who work for those rates. I believe it is people who don't have any motivation to ever purchase some property, or even the desire of getting a new car. Perhaps some others just work to bring some additional income to their household; who knows. There are numerous reasons, but I don't see any reason why professional tra... See more Rates are so low because there are translators who work for those rates. I just saw a job announced here for 2 and 3 USD cents. But thinking further in your question, I ask myself who work for those rates. I believe it is people who don't have any motivation to ever purchase some property, or even the desire of getting a new car. Perhaps some others just work to bring some additional income to their household; who knows. There are numerous reasons, but I don't see any reason why professional translators sell themselves for peanuts. Nowadays, many outsourecs offer low rates in the name of the economic recession. However, when the economies recover themselves, no one will say, "Hey, we are a thriving company now, we'll pay you higher rates."
Regards,
Elías
[Edited at 2009-10-02 15:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joseph Dengler
Local time: 11:42
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
| Outsourcer and translator | Oct 2, 2009 |
As a translator, I never got a job I applied for. NEVER.
My rates are "correct", i.e. in the typical Gauß area.
As an outsourcer, I never accepted the low rates I received as bids. Payments were in a narrow band from 0,08 to 0,12 Euros per word, depending on difficulty and timeframe.
Now, what's the deal?
1. I got excellent translators for my outsourced jobs and highly satisfied clients. Good for me.
2. Many agencies missed my excellent quality for _t... See more As a translator, I never got a job I applied for. NEVER.
My rates are "correct", i.e. in the typical Gauß area.
As an outsourcer, I never accepted the low rates I received as bids. Payments were in a narrow band from 0,08 to 0,12 Euros per word, depending on difficulty and timeframe.
Now, what's the deal?
1. I got excellent translators for my outsourced jobs and highly satisfied clients. Good for me.
2. Many agencies missed my excellent quality for _their_ clients. Pity for them, their clients may turn to me and my fellow translators one day... Again, good for me.
So?
Don't give up and _don't lower your rates_ - it finally doesn't pay. Better look for a waitress job during hard times, but stand for your values - proud of your talent, ability, motivation, language skills, training, university years and experience.
JD ▲ Collapse
| | | | | If you are interested, bid for the job... at your rate | Oct 2, 2009 |
That's basically it.
This is quite simple indeed: if jobs are not interesting for you, you should not care about them. If they are interesting but at a higher rate, bid for the project at your rate and try to convince the client that quality costs something. If the client insists that the rate must be that low, then just don't bother: they don't need quality, but just a regular translation.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 11:42
French to German
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Elías Sauza wrote:
However, when the economies recover themselves, no one will say, "Hey, we are a thriving company now, we'll pay you higher rates."
Regards,
Elías
Indeed, I never saw that kind of logical behaviour anywhere.
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| So, it is possible then to keep decent, working rates, huh? | Oct 2, 2009 |
I guess I was just a bit thrown off base by what I have observed, and wondered if I am ever going to be able to get new clients with my rates.
I must confess that, until now, I haven't made much of an effort to acquire new clients, as I have a decent stream of work coming my way from my old employers. However, I cannot continue relying on that, as one never knows what will happen next, plus that presents its own set of issues.
Anyway, is there any good strategy to acqui... See more I guess I was just a bit thrown off base by what I have observed, and wondered if I am ever going to be able to get new clients with my rates.
I must confess that, until now, I haven't made much of an effort to acquire new clients, as I have a decent stream of work coming my way from my old employers. However, I cannot continue relying on that, as one never knows what will happen next, plus that presents its own set of issues.
Anyway, is there any good strategy to acquiring new clients? (other than giving away your work for free, that is!)
Thanks for all your responses!
Mariela ▲ Collapse
| | | | Roy OConnor (X)
Local time: 11:42
German to English
| Lots of advice on ProZ virtual conference | Oct 2, 2009 |
Hi, Mariela,
I would like to add to Russell's comments about the virtual conference. It really would be worth your while listing to a few of the presentations, including Henry's. There was one on negotiating and another on how to obtain higher rates. I thnk the problem as put by one or two of the presenters is that translators are quite a timid bunch generally. They should sell themselves more vigorously. Some of the techniques you can use are highlighted in the presentations.
| | | | | Why are rates so low?!? | Oct 2, 2009 |
mdiazbutler wrote:
Obviously, there are freelancers out there willing to do the work under such terms, because otherwise there wouldn't be so many of such postings.
You just answered your own question.
mdiazbutler wrote:
So, must I compromise what I believe to be a fair compensation in order to get clients? It is disturbing to me, because I know for a fact, that agencies do charge more than twice and sometimes trice what they pay their translators.
There are other markets outside of ProZ and even outside of the agency sector. If you only ever want to reply to job posts on this site, sadly, you will have to accept the pittance. If pittance is not enough for you, you will have to complement your participation on this site with other sources of work. That often means marketing yourself. I suggest you look up search terms such as professional services marketing and rainmaking, and then just take it from there. Eventually, you will have ideas on where you could find work at better rates than the often simply ridiculous rates generously "offered" by some agencies on this site. I put the word offered between quotes, because it is usually the merchant that offers rates, not the client. Only goes to show that this slice of the global translation industry is sinking...
I have found work with reasonable rates through this site--but not through quoting on job posts. Agencies that pay healthy rates don't usually post the jobs--they contact translators through the directory. But even such good jobs are few and far between on sites such as this one, and you still would need to look to other sources to work full time at healthy rates.
All the best!
| | | | Rick Henry
United States
Local time: 04:42
Italian to English
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Roy O´Connor wrote:
...
I thnk the problem as put by one or two of the presenters is that translators are quite a timid bunch generally. They should sell themselves more vigorously. Some of the techniques you can use are highlighted in the presentations.
I somewhat agree that we can be timid. After doing this for well over a decade now, I still find myself spending about 35% or so of my time hunting for new clients. Doesn't matter if they're small or large clients. It's part of what goes into being a freelancer.
R.
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| If you aim low, you'll probably shoot yourself in the foot! | Oct 2, 2009 |
Mariela scripsit:
Anyway, is there any good strategy to acquiring new clients? (other than giving away your work for free, that is!)
Giving your work away is a good way to get no clients - or at least none worth having. I don't trust cheap translators, which caused me to engage in one of my rare episodes of outsourcing for the other direction in my pair recently. I had intended to set up a direct relationship for the other translator with the end client like I nearly always do, and this translator was highly recommended by an outsourcer I trust. However, her rate quote was literally half of what it should have been, so I figured her work would be low quality. It actually wasn't, but the direct relationship will go to a colleague with a better understanding of sustainable business. It's obvious that I was dealing with a housespouse looking for milk money, not someone with a solid appreciation of her professional worth.
So... a good strategy for acquiring new clients? Raise your rates. Set them high. And kep your head up there with them. If you have good qualifications and deliver quality and can demonstrate all that in some reasonable manner, the rest should follow with a bit of savvy marketing.
| | | | | Savvy marketing, indeed | Oct 2, 2009 |
So... a good strategy for acquiring new clients? Raise your rates. Set them high. And kep your head up there with them. If you have good qualifications and deliver quality and can demonstrate all that in some reasonable manner, the rest should follow with a bit of savvy marketing.
Therein lies the issue then. I am as good as you can get out there (pardon my lack of modesty), and having been on the other side of the coin, I know what agencies, and - ultimately - clients want. But, alas!, I am completely clueless as to what savvy marketing implies...
| | | | Kay Barbara
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:42
Member (2008)
English to German
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| With Tomás and Kevin... | Oct 2, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
That's basically it.
This is quite simple indeed: if jobs are not interesting for you, you should not care about them. If they are interesting but at a higher rate, bid for the project at your rate and try to convince the client that quality costs something. If the client insists that the rate must be that low, then just don't bother: they don't need quality, but just a regular translation.
Well said, Tomás. I completely agree with this approach. In fact, I managed to secure a very good customer this way. The customer posted a job on Proz with a rate I would consider very poor but I sent him my "standard quote" with my rate (which was almost double the propsed rate). The client replied very quickly trying to negotiate the rate down by 1 cent which I refused. Ever since we have a quite enjoyable business relationship.
I appreciate that my success in this is likely due to my field of expertise, in which real competition is few and far between (this is relatively speaking, considering the ample demand and the few expert game translators trying to meet it). However, if you can impress potential customers with your experience and expertise in your field(s), I would try quoting on low-rate jobs with your rate every now and then. After all, some clients do need to be educated (and yes, this applies to agencies, too).
I also agree with Kevin: Raise your rates. Set them high.
So far, this worked a treat for me. Never mind the "crisis"!
Having said that, maybe I should try raising my rates again
Kay
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