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Proposal: Minimum rate standard for posting jobs.
Thread poster: DOUBLE A EN<>ES

DOUBLE A EN<>ES

English to Spanish
+ ...
Mar 13, 2002

I just saw another ad for 0.035 euro per word and came up with an idea.



What follows applies to ENES but could be implemented with other language pairs if so desired.



Members of our language pair vote on a minimum acceptable rate (for the sake of convenience, in either direction). Should be simple to do by clicking on a form with a range of figures.



Once the above has been decided, when posting a job, the poster is then forced to choose either the minimum rate, or a higher one. The thing I haven\'t been able to figure out yet is exactly how you would prevent them from posting the job anyway. Say they check the minimum rate box just to get the offer in, but then type the rate they are willing to pay in the description, for example.



What do you think? I don\'t know if Proz would go for something like this. It may not be in their interest. Then again, it might add some additional prestige to the site, rather than making it a translation bargain basement.



Do you think 4 cents US would be a fair minimum rate, below which no job offer should be allowed posting?


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Dyran Altenburg  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:03
English to Spanish
+ ...
You've got to be kidding Mar 14, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-03-13 22:42, RickZ wrote:

Do you think 4 cents US would be a fair minimum rate, below which no job offer should be allowed posting?



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jccantrell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
price fixing Mar 14, 2002

Price fixing is defined as:

The result of an unlawful agreement between manufacturers or dealers to set and maintain specified prices on typically competing products.



This would get you in trouble here in the USA. I do not know the situation in Spain, but as Henry is located in the USA, permitting this could get HIM in trouble, too.



Disclaimer:

I am not a lawyer and I don\'t even play one on TV.


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Rick Henry  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:03
Italian to English
+ ...
I doubt it, jccantrell... Mar 14, 2002

I don\'t think this would be price fixing... you\'re merely setting a minimum rate FOR BIDS. From that rate, people can bid, offer, decline whatever they see fit.

I\'m not a lawyer either, but we\'re not talking about a single price, just a starting point.



R.

==

Quote:


On 2002-03-14 18:57, jccantrell wrote:

Price fixing is defined as:

The result of an unlawful agreement between manufacturers or dealers to set and maintain specified prices on typically competing products.



This would get you in trouble here in the USA. I do not know the situation in Spain, but as Henry is located in the USA, permitting this could get HIM in trouble, too.



Disclaimer:

I am not a lawyer and I don\'t even play one on TV.



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jccantrell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
Mar 14, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-03-14 19:16, Rick Henry wrote:

...

From that rate, people can bid, offer, decline whatever they see fit.

...



R.







Errrr, isn\'t that what is happening NOW?



Yours,

jc

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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 13:03
German to English
+ ...
Mar 14, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-03-14 20:19, jccantrell wrote:



Errrr, isn\'t that what is happening NOW?



Yours,

jc





No, it\'s not because you can offer any rate you want (including those cheapo rates of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 cents a word).



4 cents is way too low (I suppose that was a bad joke); in previous discussions on this site, I believe, we reached an \"agreement\" on 7 cents. So, please don\'t undo the work already done.

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jccantrell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:03
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
Katy, bar the door Mar 14, 2002

Yes, Werner, I have read the discussions. I was not aware, however, that there had been a \'floor\' agreed to (my notification must be in the mail).



But are we missing out on an opportunity here? I mean, there will ALWAYS be low bidders, regardless of the industry. If all we do is prevent them from posting here, are we not missing the chance to educate them?



I believe that the individual translator still has more power than they think. This individual translator has the power to refuse the job is the price is too low. Why should we prevent the outsourcer from ASKING for a low price as a starting point? Of course, if the price is too low, but the translator is STARVING, then the job can be accepted, but not if we set a floor price that causes the outsourcer to go elsewhere.



While you and I might not look twice at a low bid job, why should WE determine that NO ONE else can see it either? For THEIR OWN good? Who are WE to determine that?



Just my thoughts on compelling people to do anything.


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 13:03
German to English
+ ...
Reply Mar 14, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-03-14 21:49, jccantrell wrote:

Yes, Werner, I have read the discussions. I was not aware, however, that there had been a \'floor\' agreed to (my notification must be in the mail).



But are we missing out on an opportunity here? I mean, there will ALWAYS be low bidders, regardless of the industry. If all we do is prevent them from posting here, are we not missing the chance to educate them?



I believe that the individual translator still has more power than they think. This individual translator has the power to refuse the job is the price is too low. Why should we prevent the outsourcer from ASKING for a low price as a starting point? Of course, if the price is too low, but the translator is STARVING, then the job can be accepted, but not if we set a floor price that causes the outsourcer to go elsewhere.



While you and I might not look twice at a low bid job, why should WE determine that NO ONE else can see it either? For THEIR OWN good? Who are WE to determine that?



Just my thoughts on compelling people to do anything.





I do see the problem, and I agree with you. But one advantage of having a minimum rate on this site would be that even \"starving translators\" could get a shot at a 7-cent job.



As for educating people, I have given up on that some time ago (love\'s labours lost )

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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:03
English to Spanish
+ ...
Why not let the agencies "starve"? Mar 15, 2002

It\'s true there are too many translators who accept doing a job for such a low pay as $0.05 /word



But I wonder what would happen if NO TRANSLATOR ever accepted doing a job unless they got paid a minimum of 0.07?

Wouldn\'t we get *starving* agencies then? Wouldn\'t it be good to get \"agencies dying to find translators\"? And wouldn\'t that be good?



Why not let the agencies starve? Why not push them to pay higher rates?



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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 13:03
German to English
+ ...
Quite! Mar 15, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-03-15 04:53, Bertha wrote:

It\'s true there are too many translators who accept doing a job for such a low pay as $0.05 /word



But I wonder what would happen if NO TRANSLATOR ever accepted doing a job unless they got paid a minimum of 0.07?

Wouldn\'t we get *starving* agencies then? Wouldn\'t it be good to get \"agencies dying to find translators\"? And wouldn\'t that be good?



Why not let the agencies starve? Why not push them to pay higher rates?







Nice flag, by the way!



There was a similar discussion on another list not too long ago, and the consensus was that agencies cannot live without translators, but translators can and do live without agencies.



I have always believed in a fair 50-50 arrangement, but if push comes to shove, it is really the agencies that have the most to lose in this equation. As independent \"spirits\" we can work for direct clients (and often at better rates than agencies because we don\'t have their overheads), and the writing is on the wall: more and more direct clients are turning to freelancers (or cooperative groups of freelancers such as the ProZ teams, for example). So, if certain agencies think they can play stupid games with us (low rates, unreasonable expections AND no payment), they\'d better think again.

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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:03
English to Spanish
+ ...
Yes, Werner... Mar 16, 2002

...you are right, as usual.



Translators ought to understand that while agencies need us, we don\'t need them as much.



90% the translations I do are for agencies. But these agencies pay excellent rates. If they did not, I would not be able to make a living out of this.



The more translators become aware that we can push agencies to pay more, the sooner we will achieve the goal. And USD$ 0.07/word should be the minimum rate accepted.



Thanks for your comment on the flag. And thank you for directing me to the right internet site to get one.



BSD





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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:03
English to Spanish
+ ...
jccantrell has pointed out: Mar 16, 2002


QUOTE:

But are we missing out on an opportunity here? I mean, there will ALWAYS be low bidders, regardless of the industry. If all we do is prevent them from posting here, are we not missing the chance to educate them?

END OF QUOTE

________________________________



In case we succeeded in educating low bidders, [ which I very much doubt] we would always get *new* ProZ members who would accept working for 0.04 cents/word or less.I think the *idea* of education is OK, but I do not think it would really work here.



I am totally in favour of establishing a minimum and I think that minimum should apply both for the outsourcer and the subcontractor.







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