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Maybe it\'s really time to do something about it: 0.02 usd/source word - any ideas?
Thread poster: Evert DELOOF-SYS

Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 15:04
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
Mar 16, 2002

http://www.proz.com/translationjobs/19689



Posted by or on behalf of: mikael@e-mails.ru today at 4:32pm.

Do not bid after: on Apr 16.



High volume translations!





English>French

English>German

English>Portuguese

English>Thai

English>Vietnamese







Translators wanted for high volume technical/IT translations min.10000 Words!Payment $ 0.02 per English word!50% of the amount will be paid in advance.

CUT and past your CV in the mail and write your language pair in the SUBJECT LINE reply to:



mikael@e-mails.ru









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Silvina Beatriz Codina  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:04
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
What about ignoring such "indecent proposals"? Mar 16, 2002

That\'s what I do...







[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-03-16 18:49 ]


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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not everyone does it, Silvina Mar 16, 2002

I also ignore them, but the fact that one or two people answer them is enough to harm the profession.



Definitely, something has to be done to ban these people from ProZ.



Regards to all,



BSD



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Silvina Beatriz Codina  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:04
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I think these people are in a different loop (or should be) Mar 16, 2002

If you are a doctor, you\'d know that people in your profession range from back-alley abortionists to brain surgeons. If you are a lawyer, you can be an ambulance-chaser or a celebrated never-lost-a-case. And it is a fact that you cannot get the brain surgeon or the brilliant lawyer for the same fees as the abortionist or the ambulance-chaser. I believe it is the same with translators, if you offer cheap, cheap is what you should get. What would really harm the profession is if good professionals started accepting such penny-ante offerings. Rather than \"banning\" people from ProZ, I think that this site can be useful as a forum for the education of both translators and clients.



In another forum it was discussed whether it was feasible to set a minimum amount for bids. It seems that, since this is a US-based site, there is some kind of legal impediment. Aquarius does have a minimum bid (EUR 0.07 last time I looked), but Aquarius is European and, anyway, I don\'t know how that worked with them.



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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
Just in case... Mar 17, 2002

... I was not clear enough. I was suggesting to ban the outsourcers that offer $0.02/0.03/word, not the translators.

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Silvina Beatriz Codina  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 11:04
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Never thought that, Bertha Mar 17, 2002

I understood what you meant , but then we are precisely in the situation I mentioned in my previous message. The only way to \"ban\" such clients from the site would be to set a minimum price, and I don\'t know if this is feasible.





[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-03-17 14:00 ]


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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
This one is also outrageous Mar 18, 2002

Medical translation.9800 English Words.

$ 0.05 per.english word.6.Days for the job.



Contact: meditranst@hotmail.com



http://www.proz.com/job?id=19748



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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 09:04
German to English
+ ...
Something needs to be done Mar 18, 2002

I believe it is high time that ProZ charged the outsourcers for the privilege of posting jobs. It is a privilege, because without ProZ, they would have to recruit translators the old-fashioned way (definitely more time-consuming than sifting through 50 or even 100 bids).



In the real world, by the way, they would have to pay for posting invitations to bid (they take out ads in newspapers, etc.). I firmly believe that we could eliminate many of these insulting offers if outsourcers had to pay.



Some will now argue that this would reduce the number of jobs posted on this site. So??? I\'d rather see only 5 (serious) jobs with decent rates than 500 insults every day.



The way it is going right now, professional translators don\'t find any jobs through this site anyway. We receive several e-mail announcements every day and open them only to get yet another slap in the face (2 cents, 5 cents, ...). Currently, the job section caters only to low-end and low-class \"translators\" who might just as well work for free anyway.



The only way for professional translators to land any jobs through this site is when clients do a proper search of member profiles and contact us directly.


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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
I totally agree with you, Werner Mar 18, 2002

Good professionals do not seem to get too much out of the site in terms of job postings.



There is an agency that has been posting jobs for about a year. Always from English into Spanish. They have always found a translator and they have always had their jobs done. Why do they keep posting then? Because they are interested in getting the lowest rate possible?. I have heard of several different translators who have worked for them. None of them permanently; none of them has ever been contacted directly by the agency; the agency keeps on posting their jobs here at ProZ as if they were first-timers.



I know they must have quite a lot of Eng> Spa translators in their database, but no, all they are interested in is paying less and less. They continue posting jobs in the hope that they will find someone who is willing to work for one cent. And the truth is that there is always somebody who will bid the lowest price possible in order to get the job.



Who benefits?

The agency? Well, provided they found a cheap and good translator, which I very much doubt.

The translator who accepts the job and works for 0.04/word? Nope. That translator works a lot and barely gets money to pay *one* bill. So what\'s next? Lowering rates a bit more? Until when?



No more bidding for me. Thanks!


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 09:04
German to English
+ ...
Reply to Bertha Mar 18, 2002

Quite!



As for the agency you mention, there is another factor to be considered. Low-paying agencies are more likely to default on payment than others (it is a \"built-in feature\", as it were). So, these agencies posting here again and again, for the same language pairs and subject matters, are doing so because they probably never manage to hang on to their \"new recruits\". This could have a number of reasons (all of which apply to low-paying agencies): lousy project managers who don\'t know how to treat translators properly; translator gets no support; the agency may try to lower the abysmal rate even further once the job has been assigned to a \"poor sucker\"; and, finally, the agency does not pay at all!



I see this sort of thing almost every day. There is also another agency (the one with the \"perfect\" name ), and they keep posting jobs for the same languages and subjects day in and day out. That agency, and I know that from many different sources, has a bad payment record (they are denying it now; they have even sent out their minions to spread the word on how reliable and professional they are), and their expectations are completely unrealistic.


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jccantrell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:04
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
Two-class system? Mar 19, 2002

I like Werner\'s idea of charging outsourcers for advertising. That is what they are doing, after all, advertising a position.



A second proposal: There have been several threads elsewhere suggesting that a bidding floor be established to weed out \'insulting\' offers. Instead, why not institute something like what is now done with KudoZ questions, an Easy level and a Pro level. We could establish a \'floor\' rate for the Pro level and allow the \'Easy\' level to set its own pricing.

In this way, serious professionals could weed out insulting offers by only subscribing to the email notification from the Pro level, while those living in countries with lower economic conditions could look at everything.



I still agree with charging everyone who advertises, whether Pro or Easy.



So, what say to this folks?


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 09:04
German to English
+ ...
This is a very good idea; I like it. Mar 19, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-03-19 15:48, jccantrell wrote:

I like Werner\'s idea of charging outsourcers for advertising. That is what they are doing, after all, advertising a position.



A second proposal: There have been several threads elsewhere suggesting that a bidding floor be established to weed out \'insulting\' offers. Instead, why not institute something like what is now done with KudoZ questions, an Easy level and a Pro level. We could establish a \'floor\' rate for the Pro level and allow the \'Easy\' level to set its own pricing.

In this way, serious professionals could weed out insulting offers by only subscribing to the email notification from the Pro level, while those living in countries with lower economic conditions could look at everything.



I still agree with charging everyone who advertises, whether Pro or Easy.



So, what say to this folks?





You got my vote for sure!

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Sylvia Ahlbrandt  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:04
English to German
+ ...
Bidding on Proz pointless Apr 3, 2002

I totally agree with Bertha Soiza Deffenbaugh, who said “Good professionals do not seem to get too much out of the site in terms of job postings”.



Here\'s another one today for German, Spanish, French:



Printing manual, 10,400 words (42.powerpoint slides and 16.PDF pages) the PDF docs.shall be translated into word . Payment per paypal in advance, 0.028 USD per.english word!

Bids received: 25



I wouldn\'t even proofread for that rate, yet I see there are 25 bids. It is beyond my comprehension how anyone can live on this AND deliver a good translation, no matter in what country. Things like these disgust me to the point they want to make me quit my profession, which I truly love, and go work for some temp agency or flip hamburgers at McDonald’s. It would pay better, anyway.



I am totally in favor of charging job advertisers, but I still wonder if that would raise the rates to a level I could live on.



Right now, bidding on Proz is pointless for me.



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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 09:04
German to English
+ ...
Reply to Sylvia Apr 3, 2002

Sylvia,



It looks pretty bleak, no doubt, but I also believe (as I stated in another thread today) that we should stop drawing attention to these outsourcers. They are only hurting themselves - profits in the short term, yes; but in the long run, they are hurting themselves, their clients and their subcontractors, who were stupid enough to work for peanuts.



As for the 25 bids you saw, it is my hope that these are all just messages telling these people to \"go where the sun don\'t shine\".



Don\'t forget: for us, there are many different ways of landing jobs - ProZ is only one of many channels. And I can tell you that there is no reason to quit this wonderful profession of ours because the market is good, and so are the rates. Don\'t let such losers (=outsourcers) sour your experience.


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Rick Henry  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:04
Italian to English
+ ...
Very true, Werner... Apr 3, 2002

proZ is just one avenue...

There are so many places (on and off the net) that we can look to for opportunities.



R.

==

Quote:


On 2002-04-03 19:40, AbacusTrans wrote:

...

Don\'t forget: for us, there are many different ways of landing jobs - ProZ is only one of many channels. And I can tell you that there is no reason to quit this wonderful profession of ours because the market is good, and so are the rates. Don\'t let such losers (=outsourcers) sour your experience.



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-03 21:11 ]

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