Heloisa Ferreira Brazil Local time: 17:04 Member (2007) English to Portuguese + ...
Jan 12
I work for an agency for quite some time now, and they're very good clients (good and interesting projects, large amount of projects - almost daily, etc.). So good that they were my only clients for some time, and the money suited me.
Now it's been three months that I practically have to beg them to pay me (which they do, eventually). They claim some clients haven't paid them due to financial troubles in Europe and America.
Problem is: I'm having serious financial problems too. My dad passed away three months ago and his illness was very expensive, so I had to help my mom with her finances as well. Now my bank account is drained, my credit cards are overdue, the bills arrive every day. I asked them about payments, and they apologize a lot, saying I'm priority and the payments will be made ASAP.
What can I do? I don't want to lose this client. Should I wait a bit longer, or put them in the Blue Board?
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Stanislaw Czech United Kingdom Local time: 21:04 Member (2006) English to Polish + ...
I would try to negotiate
Jan 12
Assuming that so far they have been your good and important client you don't really want to burn bridges. It is quite possible that they are in real troubles, if the problems are serious listing them on the BB may not convert to money.
To start with you could ask them to pay you at least part of the amount due, and say that you won't do any more work without receiving some money, this way over a while you could recover the money without loosing a client.
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Bernhard Sulzer United States Local time: 16:04 English to German + ...
pressure
Jan 12
Heloisa Ferreira wrote:
I work for an agency for quite some time now, and they're very good clients (good and interesting projects, large amount of projects - almost daily, etc.). So good that they were my only clients for some time, and the money suited me.
Now it's been three months that I practically have to beg them to pay me (which they do, eventually). They claim some clients haven't paid them due to financial troubles in Europe and America.
Problem is: I'm having serious financial problems too. My dad passed away three months ago and his illness was very expensive, so I had to help my mom with her finances as well. Now my bank account is drained, my credit cards are overdue, the bills arrive every day. I asked them about payments, and they apologize a lot, saying I'm priority and the payments will be made ASAP.
What can I do? I don't want to lose this client. Should I wait a bit longer, or put them in the Blue Board?
Hi Heloisa,
Very sorry to hear about your loss and the financial troubles you are having.
Here are a few ideas.
First, how late are they with their payment? You are not quite clear when you say you've been begging them, but eventually they pay. Has it been three months since you submitted the translation that hasn't been paid yet? More than a month would be completely unacceptable. Start calculating late charges.
What is the company's blueboard rating? Did other translators report non- or late payment or any payment issues? If so, how far back? In any case, once a company tells you that they are having these financial problems, it is time to stop working for them. You first need to get your money before you work for them again (if you so decide), otherwise there is no incentive for them to pay you at all.
I know a company (I did one job for them) and they decided to simply not pay a lot of the translators at all. Many of them complained on blueboard. The company has been banned from posting jobs on the job board here. But that didn't stop them from contacting translators directly. They also changed their name for the 3rd or 4th time and did start paying new translators for new jobs. So, unfortunately, one translator gave them a 5 rating on blueboard recently because she was paid right away. That translator didn't care about the fact that there are many many translators who haven't seen their money in years and in amounts of many thousands of Pounds/Euros.
How did I get the money? It took me 8 months to get my money and I still regard it as a miracle. I pleaded with them, then I threatened legal action but if they are in a far away country, what can you do? You would have to hire somebody to get your money. You are located in Brazil. Where is the company located?
Even if their blueboard rating is relatively good and they have not been banned from posting jobs on proz.com, I would first contact proz.com staff right away and have them intervene on your behalf. Clearly, the company has been happy with your work, so they cannot claim quality issues.
Do that first. Explain to proz.com staff the urgency of the situation.
Tell proz.com:
You need the money now. And it should be wired into your bank account. At the company's cost!! No checks. Often they will bounce. Or your bank might refuse to cash it or tell you you have to wait a month to actually get the money. That's a very important point.
I am sure that company is still paying somebody. But they could stop completely, any day.
If the company doesn't pay you but they are selling your translation or have given it to their client, then they are selling something they took (stole) from you. Tell that to proz.com staff. There is definitely room for legal action. They will have to disclose their end client. The end client cannot use your work until you have been paid.
Tell proz.com everything I mentioned here in the last two paragraphs.
Don't wait any longer for them to pay you. They are not going to pay unless you put pressure on them. You have been nice enough to them.
Where is that company located, Heloise?
And what do you mean with "the money suited me"? Was it good money or did it help you to just get by?
HTH
Bernhard
[Edited at 2012-01-12 05:40 GMT]
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Vladimír Hoffman Slovakia Local time: 22:04 Member (2009) English to Slovak + ...
Stop working for them,
Jan 12
but explain to them that it is only temporary measure, because you have to earn money for your living. As regards overdue payments, try to agree on instalments and thoroughly monitor compliance with payment schedule, contacting them even if instalment is one day overdue. If the agency (your main business partner) really got into troubles (and it seems they got), they will probably highly appreciate that you are not pushing them to the wall.
Be firm, but polite, and express understanding, it costs you nothing.
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Heloisa Ferreira wrote:
I work for an agency for quite some time now, and they're very good clients (good and interesting projects, large amount of projects - almost daily, etc.). So good that they were my only clients for some time, and the money suited me.
Now it's been three months that I practically have to beg them to pay me (which they do, eventually). They claim some clients haven't paid them due to financial troubles in Europe and America.
Problem is: I'm having serious financial problems too. My dad passed away three months ago and his illness was very expensive, so I had to help my mom with her finances as well. Now my bank account is drained, my credit cards are overdue, the bills arrive every day. I asked them about payments, and they apologize a lot, saying I'm priority and the payments will be made ASAP.
What can I do? I don't want to lose this client. Should I wait a bit longer, or put them in the Blue Board?
Hi Heloisa,
Very sorry to hear about your loss and the financial troubles you are having.
Here are a few ideas.
First, how late are they with their payment? You are not quite clear when you say you've been begging them, but eventually they pay. Has it been three months since you submitted the translation that hasn't been paid yet? More than a month would be completely unacceptable. Start calculating late charges.
What is the company's blueboard rating? Did other translators report non- or late payment or any payment issues? If so, how far back? In any case, once a company tells you that they are having these financial problems, it is time to stop working for them. You first need to get your money before you work for them again (if you so decide), otherwise there is no incentive for them to pay you at all.
I know a company (I did one job for them) and they decided to simply not pay a lot of the translators at all. Many of them complained on blueboard. The company has been banned from posting jobs on the job board here. But that didn't stop them from contacting translators directly. They also changed their name for the 3rd or 4th time and did start paying new translators for new jobs. So, unfortunately, one translator gave them a 5 rating on blueboard recently because she was paid right away. That translator didn't care about the fact that there are many many translators who haven't seen their money in years and in amounts of many thousands of Pounds/Euros.
How did I get the money? It took me 8 months to get my money and I still regard it as a miracle. I pleaded with them, then I threatened legal action but if they are in a far away country, what can you do? You would have to hire somebody to get your money. You are located in Brazil. Where is the company located?
Even if their blueboard rating is relatively good and they have not been banned from posting jobs on proz.com, I would first contact proz.com staff right away and have them intervene on your behalf. Clearly, the company has been happy with your work, so they cannot claim quality issues.
Do that first. Explain to proz.com staff the urgency of the situation.
Tell proz.com:
You need the money now. And it should be wired into your bank account. At the company's cost!! No checks. Often they will bounce. Or your bank might refuse to cash it or tell you you have to wait a month to actually get the money. That's a very important point.
I am sure that company is still paying somebody. But they could stop completely, any day.
If the company doesn't pay you but they are selling your translation or have given it to their client, then they are selling something they took (stole) from you. Tell that to proz.com staff. There is definitely room for legal action. They will have to disclose their end client. The end client cannot use your work until you have been paid.
Tell proz.com everything I mentioned here in the last two paragraphs.
Don't wait any longer for them to pay you. They are not going to pay unless you put pressure on them. You have been nice enough to them.
Where is that company located, Heloise?
And what do you mean with "the money suited me"? Was it good money or did it help you to just get by?
HTH
Bernhard
[Edited at 2012-01-12 05:40 GMT]
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT Spain Local time: 22:04 Member (2005) English to Spanish + ...
A good lesson
Jan 12
Yes, of course it is comfortable and cozy to work for one agency only, get used to their practices, methods, and procedures, be friendly with all PMs, and live happily ever after. The problem is that at the end of the road you get in deep trouble at the same time your customer is in trouble. Wisdom and enlightening stories about not having just one customer has been around for ever, but was disregarded. Now it is time to correct the situation.
First of all, start an aggressive campaign to capture more customers. This will be at a sacrifice of your free time and maybe part of the life you used to enjoy. Maybe it will also mean that you will have to say no to jobs from your beloved (I am not being sarcastic here) customer if other customers have you busy during some day or week in particular.
As for your customer, I would hold the horses a bit about the Blueboard. Yes, you desperately need to pay your bills and protect/recover your credit worthiness, but they have been a good customer so far and maybe they are not lying about financial difficulties. Maybe they also made the mistake of concentrating in a reduced number of customers.
Personally I would visit them in person (email or phone will not help in this case), would hold a proper meeting with them with all the figures on the table. The purpose of the meeting is to reschedule the payment, but with your firm statement that they need to make the payments on the agreed dates. Make sure you write a document with the dates and amounts, and have it signed by a company official and by yourself, both accepting the new payment dates. You can then go to your bank and ask them for patience with your case, proving that you are doing all you can to resolve the matter.
Now, if the company does not honour any of the payment dates, you should definitely sue them and record them in the Blueboard. You cannot live on charity!
As for doing more work for a company that does not pay... that is completely out of the question. Cease all work for them (even if you have no other work to do) until money starts flowing.
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Noni Gilbert Spain Local time: 22:04 Member (2007) Spanish to English + ...
Visit them in person
Jan 12
I agree with Tomás. If at all possible, sit down with them and work out a strategy for their payment.
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Simon Mountifield France Local time: 22:04 Member (2004) French to English
More customers
Jan 12
Sorry to hear about your problems.
You've already been given some good advice on ways to resolve the payment issues with this particular agency. I agree with Tomás that you should look to capture more customers. Try not to put all your eggs in one basket. I almost got caught short a few years ago by relying on one customer for most of my work (and income). When that customer suddenly went bankrupt, not only was I owed quite a bit of money, but most of my work dried up. I work for more customers now and try to keep a balanced workload between all of them, without relying on any one customer in particular.
Good luck!
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Katalin Horvath McClure United States Local time: 16:04 Member (2002) English to Hungarian + ...
ProZ is not a collection agency
Jan 12
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Even if their blueboard rating is relatively good and they have not been banned from posting jobs on proz.com, I would first contact proz.com staff right away and have them intervene on your behalf. Clearly, the company has been happy with your work, so they cannot claim quality issues.
Do that first. Explain to proz.com staff the urgency of the situation.
Tell proz.com:
You need the money now. And it should be wired into your bank account. At the company's cost!! No checks. Often they will bounce. Or your bank might refuse to cash it or tell you you have to wait a month to actually get the money. That's a very important point.
I am sure that company is still paying somebody. But they could stop completely, any day.
If the company doesn't pay you but they are selling your translation or have given it to their client, then they are selling something they took (stole) from you. Tell that to proz.com staff. There is definitely room for legal action. They will have to disclose their end client. The end client cannot use your work until you have been paid.
Tell proz.com everything I mentioned here in the last two paragraphs.
There are many questionable statements above.
Why would ProZ.com "intervene on your behalf"? ProZ is just a marketplace, they do not get involved in the actual transactions between the parties. Expecting ProZ to handle non-payment issues in the sense it is suggested here is nonsense. They can't and won't initiate legal action, won't pressure the client, and won't get your money for you.
Take a look at the other advice in this thread, negotiate partial payment, and/or initiate formal collection and/or legal procedures, whatever makes sense in the country you and your client is located.
Katalin
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matt robinson Spain Local time: 22:04 Member (2010) Spanish to English
Freelance
Jan 12
I hope everything turns out okay.
Tomás is absolutely right. As a freelance translator it is in your best interests to take your work from various sources. I would say cast your net as wide as possible and then over time settle on those you prefer to work for. I wouldn't like to put a number on it but I would think four or five regular clients is probably the norm, plus a whole host of others who offer you work which you may or may not accept depending on workload.
Avoid taking on huge projects with tight deadlines which force you to dedicate all your time to one client at the expense of others.
If you really want to work for only one client then perhaps you should opt for an in-house job. This could provide more security of income on a month to month basis (provided the company didn't go bust, of course!)
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John Fossey Canada Local time: 16:04 Member (2008) French to English
No more than 20% for any one client
Jan 12
Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:
Why would ProZ.com "intervene on your behalf"?
Proz.com does do this, at least when you post a low rating on the BB you are offered to have Proz.com, and I have collected debts in the past from clients who have been contacted by Proz.com in such a way. It may not be more than an email from Proz.com, but that may be enough to move a translator from the bottom priority on the debtor's list to the top priority.
As a business rule of thumb, a red flag should go up when any client makes up more than 20% of your income. At that point it's really quite important to step up marketing so that you won't be in trouble if the major client disappears for any reason.
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Bernhard Sulzer United States Local time: 16:04 English to German + ...
nonsense
Jan 12
Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Even if their blueboard rating is relatively good and they have not been banned from posting jobs on proz.com, I would first contact proz.com staff right away and have them intervene on your behalf. Clearly, the company has been happy with your work, so they cannot claim quality issues.
Do that first. Explain to proz.com staff the urgency of the situation.
Tell proz.com:
You need the money now. And it should be wired into your bank account. At the company's cost!! No checks. Often they will bounce. Or your bank might refuse to cash it or tell you you have to wait a month to actually get the money. That's a very important point.
I am sure that company is still paying somebody. But they could stop completely, any day.
If the company doesn't pay you but they are selling your translation or have given it to their client, then they are selling something they took (stole) from you. Tell that to proz.com staff. There is definitely room for legal action. They will have to disclose their end client. The end client cannot use your work until you have been paid.
Tell proz.com everything I mentioned here in the last two paragraphs.
There are many questionable statements above.
Why would ProZ.com "intervene on your behalf"? ProZ is just a marketplace, they do not get involved in the actual transactions between the parties. Expecting ProZ to handle non-payment issues in the sense it is suggested here is nonsense. They can't and won't initiate legal action, won't pressure the client, and won't get your money for you.
Take a look at the other advice in this thread, negotiate partial payment, and/or initiate formal collection and/or legal procedures, whatever makes sense in the country you and your client is located.
Katalin
... is a strong word, Katalin.
I only suggested that proz.com should help and contact the client. I did tell Heloisa to "tell" proz.com all her concerns and show how serious the problem is.
None of the things I said are nonsense.
Bernhard
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Heloisa Ferreira Brazil Local time: 17:04 Member (2007) English to Portuguese + ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you
Jan 12
Thank you all for the replies. Let me clarify some points in my post:
- The agency is located in Peru, so, unfortunately, there's no way for me to go there personally and explain the situation, as I live in Brazil.
- By "the money suited me", I wanted to say that I was living comfortably only with the money received from them. Although I have other clients, their workflow isn't as good as the one from this agency, and I can't rely on another clients who send me sporadic work...
- I already started to look for new clients, by sending CVs, and even asking colleagues to send me jobs they think they can't handle (I'm a medical translator, so, fortunately, this is a field with lots of opportunities)
- I just sent another message to the financial department asking for an advance. I was willing to scan my bank statements to show them I'm not lying, but then I thought, I'm in my own right to ask for the money they owe me without justification!
- Of course, I'll refrain to put them in the BB at the moment, because I understand that every start of a new year is a critical period (clients in holidays, lack of work, etc.). I'll try to ask them for my money in a daily basis, politely, at least for 10 days more (I believe the situation will be solved by then, hopefully). If I don't get paid until then, I'll have to put them in the BB.
I know it's a difficult situation, for me and for them, not only because of the late payments, but also because of the relationship we have. I've been working for them for two and a half years now, without any problems.
[Edited at 2012-01-12 16:03 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 21:04 Member (2007) English + ...
Blue Board entry could be of use
Jan 12
Hello Heloisa,
I do hope you get your money for outstanding invoices from this company and that you can go on working with them.
I agree with others that you should not accept more work until the overdue amounts have been paid in full - that could be suicidal. Then, you should proceed on the same basis for a while i.e. job1; payment1; job2; payment2... Only when they can assure you to your satisfaction that their money problems are over should you consider running up larger bills. If they really are having temporary problems and are a good company, they should agree to those arrangements. On the other hand, hounding and pleading may well serve neither of you. You are a valuable business partner and their problems are becoming your problems, so sort it out together from the same side of the fence if you can, rather than becoming enemies.
I believe a Blue Board entry could be helpful to other translators here, especially if you do it after consulting the company and not as a threat. You should check with ProZ.com staff, but the rules seem to say that you can change an entry unless it has been replied to. Something glowing in one sentence about past collaboration, with another short comment on their, hopefully temporary, cash-flow problems, could be easily edited if/when the company recovers. This would alert other translators to the current risk, without saying the company is awful. For example, I personally would still be happy to do a smallish job for this company on the same basis as I laid out above, but I would prefer to avoid accepting 1000€ of work without some advance payment.
Good luck with finding other clients, whatever happens.
Sheila
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Katalin Horvath McClure United States Local time: 16:04 Member (2002) English to Hungarian + ...
Relying on ProZ.com to intervene IS nonsense
Jan 12
Just a clarification for those suggesting that ProZ should or in fact does get involved in actual disputes between ProZ users and outsourcers.
First of all, this is from the FAQ:
1.7 - What does the message This outsourcer has been banned from posting jobs at ProZ.com mean?
As per ProZ.com termination policy, if a total of three non-payment complaints regarding a single outsourcer have been received from unrelated sources, the issue will be brought to ProZ.com staff for review. At its sole discretion, ProZ.com staff may then choose to suspend or revoke the outsourcer's right to use ProZ.com. This note refers to that suspension.
In my reading this means that if 3 non-payment alerts are posted (non-payment notices are a different function, you should click a different button, not only post a low rating) ProZ may consider the issue, and ban the outsourcer from posting jobs, and/or terminate their membership, if they are members. I am not sure whether they do this, but during their investigation, they may send out an email, and that may prompt the outsourcer to settle their debts, but this is not something that someone with an actual payment problem should be expecting, and definitely not a collection method to rely on.
The only other interference I am aware of is related to quality problems, when a user posts a BB rating for an outsourcer and the outsourcer claims quality problems. But again, ProZ does not check the actual existence of the quality problem, only whether the poster complied with ProZ rules when posting the comment.
Hopefully staff will clarify this, but I would be very surprised if they would do any collection activities on anybody's behalf, since that would go against the foundations that define ProZ as a facilitator, but not as a participant in the exchanges.
I do hope that this case gets settled and payment will be received as originally agreed.
Katalin
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Heloisa Ferreira Brazil Local time: 17:04 Member (2007) English to Portuguese + ...
TOPIC STARTER
Update
Jan 13
An update on my situation: I sent the agency a message explaining my financial troubles, said I understand that they're having their problems as well, and asked for an advance. Fortunately, they accepted (saying that this is the way they can handle the problem right now - sending me a part in advance and another part on January 20, and the rest as soon as possible), so in the end, communication is really what matters (just clarifying, I never ever mentioned BB or Proz in my messages).
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