Stanislaw Czech United Kingdom Local time: 21:17 Member (2006) English to Polish + ...
I am not sure but
Jan 21
If the Agency says that they did not order translation from you and you did not work for them in the past I don't think that they are your client/principal. And if they are not client/principal than I am not sure if limitation as to contacting the end client applies.
Best Regards
S
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Ty Kendall United Kingdom Local time: 21:17 Member (2011) Hebrew to English
Agreed
Jan 21
Stanislaw Czech wrote:
If the Agency says that they did not order translation from you and you did not work for them in the past I don't think that they are your client/principal. And if they are not client/principal than I am not sure if limitation as to contacting the end client applies.
Best Regards
S
This was also my interpretation too.
Although I can also see why others would be cautious against such a measure.
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Tom Fennell United States Local time: 15:17 Russian to English + ...
Going to court is the last measure
Jan 21
Unlike Tomas, I would say that going to court is the final step, not an intermediary one.
Self-regulating industry institutions are meant to help people avoid going to court, not to serve as final courts of judgement.
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Samuel Murray Netherlands Local time: 22:17 Member (2006) English to Afrikaans + ...
No, it still counts
Jan 22
Ty Kendall wrote:
Stanislaw Czech wrote:
If the Agency says that they did not order translation from you and you did not work for them in the past I don't think that they are your client/principal. And if they are not client/principal than I am not sure if limitation as to contacting the end client applies.
This was also my interpretation too.
No, I would treat any statements [in ethical codes] about how to treat clients as including potential clients also. Client confidentiality does not start only when the client becomes a job-confirming client but already when the client approaches you with the view to become a client.
The same goes for non-compete issues -- if you would not have known about that end-client unless you had received the [potential] assignment from this client, then the information is confidential and proprietary, despite the fact that the relationship went nowhere.
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Ata Arif ACIL United Kingdom Local time: 21:17 Member (2009) Kurdish to English + ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all
Jan 22
Thank you all for all your valued input.
From all these discussions I can go to a conclusion, if I am not wrong:
1- I do not owe the agency anything as they did not confirm the job to me, as they claim, with a PO and a go ahead. So I shall stop arguing about that.
2- the agency, if they cannot confirm in writing that their bid has been refused that does mean they sent my translation to their client and that they have to pay me accordingly.
3- if the bid is refused they have to delete my translation from their system immediately and they do not have any rights to use my translation in any format or in any way, whether would be by themselves or their clients or any other third parties.
4- if in anyway I come to know that my translation has been used by the agency, their clients or any other third party, in whatever format: brochure, flyer, print out, web publication, printed material and so on, I would have a right to take the matter to court.
Please let me know if you agree or disagree with this conclusion.
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Ty Kendall United Kingdom Local time: 21:17 Member (2011) Hebrew to English
Open to interpretation
Jan 22
Samuel Murray wrote:
Ty Kendall wrote:
Stanislaw Czech wrote:
If the Agency says that they did not order translation from you and you did not work for them in the past I don't think that they are your client/principal. And if they are not client/principal than I am not sure if limitation as to contacting the end client applies.
This was also my interpretation too.
No, I would treat any statements [in ethical codes] about how to treat clients as including potential clients also. Client confidentiality does not start only when the client becomes a job-confirming client but already when the client approaches you with the view to become a client.
The same goes for non-compete issues -- if you would not have known about that end-client unless you had received the [potential] assignment from this client, then the information is confidential and proprietary, despite the fact that the relationship went nowhere.
I disagree, ...when is a client not a client?.....I think it's open to interpretation. Legal language is usually very precise so as to avoid this type of confusion. If the rules relating to clients were meant to include potential clients, I would expect words to that effect or an additional rule catering for this.
In my mind, potential clients shouldn't go sending out confidential/sensitive material to outsourcers who are not obliged to keep the information confidential. There is something deeply unprofessional about this. I quite often get agencies sending me client documents when I know they have little intention of hiring me. One agency once even sent me a bunch of indictments with a vague 'promise' of translation work when in fact they just wanted me to use my OCR software for them to get an accurate wordcount (before finding a cheaper translator). I didn't sign any NDA with these people, I didn't even ASK to be sent the documents, they were in my inbox before I had time to protest/query.
You yourself are perfectly entitled to impose your own interpretation of these rules in your working life, but then so are others.
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Ty Kendall United Kingdom Local time: 21:17 Member (2011) Hebrew to English
Agree
Jan 22
Ata Arif BA, BA (HONS), ACIL wrote:
Thank you all for all your valued input.
From all these discussions I can go to a conclusion, if I am not wrong:
1- I do not owe the agency anything as they did not confirm the job to me, as they claim, with a PO and a go ahead. So I shall stop arguing about that.
2- the agency, if they cannot confirm in writing that their bid has been refused that does mean they sent my translation to their client and that they have to pay me accordingly.
3- if the bid is refused they have to delete my translation from their system immediately and they do not have any rights to use my translation in any format or in any way, whether would be by themselves or their clients or any other third parties.
4- if in anyway I come to know that my translation has been used by the agency, their clients or any other third party, in whatever format: brochure, flyer, print out, web publication, printed material and so on, I would have a right to take the matter to court.
Please let me know if you agree or disagree with this conclusion.
I agree with all the points detailed here.
[Edited at 2012-01-22 11:52 GMT]
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT Spain Local time: 22:17 Member (2005) English to Spanish + ...
Completely disagree
Jan 22
Stanislaw Czech wrote:
If the Agency says that they did not order translation from you and you did not work for them in the past I don't think that they are your client/principal. And if they are not client/principal than I am not sure if limitation as to contacting the end client applies.
The main goal of the Code of Conduct and the Guidelines mentioned is clearly to promote the good name and status of the profession. Reasonable, corteous dealings based upon the assumption of good faith, with potential and real customers alike, are instrumental to that goal.
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Jabberwock Poland Local time: 22:17 Member (2004) English to Polish
True
Jan 22
Samuel Murray wrote:
No, I would treat any statements [in ethical codes] about how to treat clients as including potential clients also. Client confidentiality does not start only when the client becomes a job-confirming client but already when the client approaches you with the view to become a client.
I think this is the only sensible approach here... Otherwise I could try to go back behind the new agency back directly to the end client with every potential project I see.
If that was actually assumed, this would mean that it would be much more difficult to see the whole project before accepting it or that I would need to sign NDAs at the very first contact with agencies... Neither of those developments is needed or welcome.
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