Can anyone recommend a good collection agency in Belgium?
MariusV Lithuania Local time: 23:22 English to Lithuanian + ...
Jan 30
Hi,
I have quite a weird situation. From October I have been translating (a big continuous project) for one translation agency from Belgium. We had our agreement on rates, payment terms, etc. And the first invoice for October work was paid very fast and without any problems (during the first week of November where our agreement was by the end of November). Then, being really happy with such a good start, I did a lot of work for them during November, and invoiced them after the end of the month (due payment date was during the month of December). No payment yet. But I did not worry too much, and worked for them for the first two weeks of January. Then I started emailing them with questions about payment due during December. But I did not worry too much (as they paid my first invoice very fast nor had time for reminders as did not want to distract from their project that was really very technical and with very tight deadlines). Then they offered more work and big volumes in the second half of January. I politely refused telling that I need payment for what I already did and as soon as they settle the payment, we can move on. From that time I have not heard anything from them - all my emails with invoices and reminders asking about the situation, simply went like into the water. Then I started phoning them every day asking to speak with the person in charge for the payments. And quite a "classical situation" - the PM "does not know anything about the payments, you should speak to our accountant"...And "the accountant appears to be unavailable at the moment"...And "we cannot give you neither the name nor the phone number of our boss"...The project was very hard and very technical, the amount due is quite an outstanding one. Seems that this situation "smells bad"...Last Monday I faxed them a formal reminder to settle in full for the work done by the end of January. No reaction at all.
Can anyone recommend me a reliable and professional debt collection agency from Belgium? And also - is there any www with public information about companies and their credit ratings (like Company Register www, or www with a database about company credit reliability/ratings)? It does not seem that this issue will be resolved without any "intervention"
P.S. Btw, this company has quite good Proz.com BB ratings...
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Williamson United Kingdom Local time: 21:22 Flemish to English + ...
Intrum justitia.
Jan 31
Intrum Justitia. But you have to be a customer of I.R.
They a have a
Service de recouvrement (transl.: debt recovery service)
Intrum Justitia Belgique
Questions concernant une dette (transl.: questions about a debt).
Tel: +32 9 265 65 00
The biggest agencies in Belgium tend to pay end of month +60 days.
Try to speak to the accountant.
If you worked for the bigger agencies, like (E.logos, Lionbridge) You have to speak to the accountant sounds familar. The PM at that agency only was there to distribute assignments to translators and print-invoices at about double the price to the end-customer upon delivery of the translation by the translator. She had to be productive too.
They put my through to their accountant and 5 days later or so, the money was on the bank.
[Edited at 2012-01-31 08:26 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Edward Potter Spain Local time: 22:22 Member (2003) Spanish to English + ...
Late payment
Jan 31
You did the right thing by turning down further work until the large outstanding payment has been made.
I have heard different translators comment that Belgium has a "custom" of delayed payments and that this country takes longer than the rest of its neighbors.
I don't know of any collections agencies out that way. Perhaps someone else here can make you a recommendation. If not, you always have friend Google to make suggestions.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Lisa Simpson, MCIL United Kingdom Local time: 21:22 Member (2010) Portuguese to English + ...
Agree with Edward
Jan 31
Hi Marius,
Edward is right, in my experience Belgian agencies have very long payment terms. The fact that they're being uncommunicative does not bode well though. Please feel free to message me privately on this.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 21:22 Member (2007) English + ...
"Won't pay" or "Can't pay"?
Jan 31
Hello Marius,
I'm afraid I don't know anything about Belgium but I do believe there are many things there that are similar to France (chronic late payment being one similarity though it IS getting better here now that the administration itself pays more quickly).
MariusV wrote:
Last Monday I faxed them a formal reminder to settle in full for the work done by the end of January. No reaction at all.
All I can say is that in France this type of letter MUST be sent in an envelope to the company's registered address, and they must have to sign for it to prove delivery. The receipt you receive is valid as the very first part of legal proceedings. The letter must give all the info (all the relevant dates and numbers) and must give them n days (often 15) to pay before you take the matter further. Make sure you restate all the information to make it easy for them to pay you. The one here: http://www.paris-law.com/articles/Fench_comercial_litigation-en.htm is much more formal than the ones I have sent, but the link might be helpful. Of course, it's all about France, not Belgium.
Can anyone recommend me a reliable and professional debt collection agency from Belgium? And also - is there any www with public information about companies and their credit ratings (like Company Register www, or www with a database about company credit reliability/ratings)? It does not seem that this issue will be resolved without any "intervention"
I really do advise you to tackle the second before bothering with the first. If the company is in serious financial trouble no collection agency and no court will be able to get your money for you. You'd simply be throwing good money after bad. There must be something available online to check their status - I'd keep searching.
Sorry I can't be of more help. Good luck!
Sheila
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
MariusV Lithuania Local time: 23:22 English to Lithuanian + ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks a lot!
Jan 31
Dear colleagues,
Really thank you very much for your thoughts and advice. And very good about "Intrum Justitia" because it seems there is a branch office of this company in my country too.
Regarding payments from such countries like Belgium, France, Italy, Spain - yes, I really know that being late or having really long payment terms is a "normal practice" there. But the worst thing is that after I turned down the continuation of their project with the recent payment being substantially late, no one ever responded to my emails with my reminders, etc. - seems like they disappeared. This thing really made me anxious. I can understand that some small agency has cash flow problems, these are hard times, but they can simply respond and tell "sorry, but there can be delays with payment, because ..., but can you please still finish the project? we assure you we will pay you no later than ... for all".
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Laurent KRAULAND France Local time: 22:22 Member (2007) French to German + ...
Not worse than France or Italy...
Jan 31
Edward Potter wrote:
You did the right thing by turning down further work until the large outstanding payment has been made.
I have heard different translators comment that Belgium has a "custom" of delayed payments and that this country takes longer than the rest of its neighbors.
I don't know of any collections agencies out that way. Perhaps someone else here can make you a recommendation. If not, you always have friend Google to make suggestions.
Not worse than France and Italy, these are countries in which many agencies tend to "add" a fortnight or even a month to agreed payment terms.
30 days -> 45 days (France) or 60 days -> 90 days (Italy).
Personally the only Belgian agency for which I worked used to pay me at 60 days (this being 30 days + 30 days) on the most spurious reasons, no matter how high or low the invoiced amount was.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
MariusV Lithuania Local time: 23:22 English to Lithuanian + ...
TOPIC STARTER
one more question
Jan 31
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Edward Potter wrote:
You did the right thing by turning down further work until the large outstanding payment has been made.
I have heard different translators comment that Belgium has a "custom" of delayed payments and that this country takes longer than the rest of its neighbors.
I don't know of any collections agencies out that way. Perhaps someone else here can make you a recommendation. If not, you always have friend Google to make suggestions.
Not worse than France and Italy, these are countries in which many agencies tend to "add" a fortnight or even a month to agreed payment terms.
30 days -> 45 days (France) or 60 days -> 90 days (Italy).
Personally the only Belgian agency for which I worked used to pay me at 60 days (this being 30 days + 30 days) on the most spurious reasons, no matter how high or low the invoiced amount was.
I wonder (just for my simple curiosity) why payment terms are so long in those countries? I usually agree with my clients for "30 days after invoice" and still consider it quite a period of time. Having in mind that the end client usually pays in several working days or maximum in a couple of weeks. In my country, there is even a "by default" payment term defined by the laws - it is 14 days. In cases when the sides to not have a specific agreement to settle the invoice faster or later.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Kirsten Bodart Germany Local time: 22:22 Member (2011) Dutch to English + ...
Being Belgian
Jan 31
I think you should firstly send a recorded letter. That is the first move to tell them that they are in serious trouble. You demand payment by such and such a date (make it a reasonable amount of time) and after that they have a problem. Something like, 'If payment should not have been made prior to this date, we shall deem it necessary to ask a third party/lawyer to intervene on our behalf.'
Personally I would not use a debt collector in Belgium because they actually have no way of really collecting at all (no formal legal power). They can harrass and try to scare their debtors, but frankly, debtors usually know they have no jurisdiction anyway.
If the sum is quite substancial, take a lawyer. I am afraid that is the only reliable option. After that there is the bailiff (who can be serious bastards). I believe that the debtor should also pay the bailiff's costs at any rate, so I don't think you're worse for ware in that case. Maybe you can demand the lawyer's costs back, although I am not sure about that.
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Jehanne Henin Belgium Local time: 22:22 Member (2010) English to French + ...
Strange
Jan 31
I work mainly with Belgian agencies and they all pay within 30 days EOM (well, sometimes 2 or 3 days late but still). Am I particularly lucky?
Marius, I cannot recommend you any collection agency as I never had to use one (I knock on wood), but I would be curious to know which agency you are talking about... Could you tell me by private message?
I sometimes hear about European small claims procedure, did you check if this could work for you?
[Modifié le 2012-01-31 12:00 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Sheila Wilson Spain Local time: 21:22 Member (2007) English + ...
Small Claims Court?
Jan 31
MariusV wrote:
In my country, there is even a "by default" payment term defined by the laws - it is 14 days. In cases when the sides to not have a specific agreement to settle the invoice faster or later.
In those EU countries where there isn't this sort of protection, we now have the EU ruling that 30 days applies as default. Doesn't seem to have changed much as yet.
Once you are sure they are still solvent, and if the claim is for less than 3000 EUR or so, you could try the European Small Claims Court. It's simple but I've heard it takes ages etc though it is modelled on the French SCC, which I personally have a very high opinion of. In France it's a simple form to fill in and then you wait - your debtor has to pay all court and bailiff costs plus interest etc: very satisfying, I can tell you! Not sure of the EU link but it's probably www.europa something (it's been talked about on the forum). Perhaps you could persuade a legal professional to give you a bit of free advice? They do that here.
Sheila
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Jehanne Henin Belgium Local time: 22:22 Member (2010) English to French + ...
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Teresa Borges Belgium Local time: 22:22 Member (2007) German to Portuguese + ...
That is not my experience!
Jan 31
Edward Potter wrote:
You did the right thing by turning down further work until the large outstanding payment has been made.
I have heard different translators comment that Belgium has a "custom" of delayed payments and that this country takes longer than the rest of its neighbors.
I don't know of any collections agencies out that way. Perhaps someone else here can make you a recommendation. If not, you always have friend Google to make suggestions.
So much so that I never had to use a collection agency! Most of my Belgian clients pay within 30 days of the invoice date, one within one week (sometimes even less), and others within 60 days...
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
Williamson United Kingdom Local time: 21:22 Flemish to English + ...
Belgium
Jan 31
has this unique piece of legislation which says that a debt is collectible at the door of the debtor.
This is no joke. To quote an instructor at a business-course in Belgium:
"In Belgium, you have 3 types of invoices":
1.Those of utilities, which you pay on time
2. Those of essential suppliers, which you pay a bit later and
3. Those which you hang on a notice board above your toilet (the less urgent ones) and which you pay after a reminder of a lawyer".
I guess translator's invoices are a part of the third category.
You can write as many reminders as you like, but if a Belgian outsourcer does not answer or does not want to pay, using the services of a credit-collection lawyer and a bailiff is indeed an effective means of getting your money.
Yes, bailiffs can be nasty people, especially when a lawyer requests to have a judgement at short notice for failure to pay an invoice.
It better be a large sum, you are chasing after : A bailiff can not work alone. First you have to go to a lawyer like http://www.gobert.be
who calls upon the services of a bailiff (price €150 euros) for the debtor to appear in court a short notice to hear him/her convicted for non-payment of invoice.
If you win, the costs of the trial, your lawyer (not 100% certain) and their lawyer are for the debtor. If you lose, you will have to pay your lawyer, the lawyer of the opposite party, the bailiff and the costs of the trial.
Belgium and payment at 30 days, well, Jehanne, then you have been so lucky to find those agencies which pay at +30. When I worked for Belgian agencies, payment used to be end of month + 60 days for almost all Brussels agencies until I put a password on a translation an agency based in Koekelberg urgently needed.
Got paid the same afternoon. Never heard of them again.
I prefer to be paid the German way: Pünktlich (immediately, at 20 or 30 days at the most).
If my Belgian freelance IT-acquaintance working in Brussels gets paid a hefty sum every month on the first of each month after having delivered his services for the 20 working days during the previous month, why can't translators be paid this way? On time.
[Edited at 2012-02-01 09:52 GMT]
Subject:
Comment:
The contents of this post will automatically be included in the ticket generated. Please add any additional comments or explanation (optional)
To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:
memoQ translator pro is the premium product for professionals. It is Kilgray's best-selling tool among freelance translators: you get all the functionality available in memoQ in your local environment plus the ability to work on remote servers.
SDL provides market-leading translation software to over 185,000 users
SDL offers leading translation management solutions to meet LSPs needs throughout the whole translation supply chain.
With over 185,000 licenses being used by translators and organizations worldwide, our products will help you to connect to a supply chain that guarantees compatibility, making it easier to work with your customers and other users.
The translation workplace 
Translation news