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Blue Board agency changes
Thread poster: Suzanne Blangsted
Suzanne Blangsted  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:00
Danish to English
+ ...
Jun 24, 2004

After a translator has done a job for an agency and received prompt payment for that job, the translator then posts a good response about the agency on the Blue Board, but then translator cannot warn the other translators about that agency, when later on it appears that the agency only paid promptly to get a good rating and then stopped paying for other jobs done despite many reminders. There should be a way to get the word out about agencies non-payment practices at a later date than when first rated to give a more complete picture of that agency.

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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 11:00
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
Edit your rating button Jun 24, 2004

Hello Blangsted,
After you rated an agency on the BB, you can go back and edit your rating - change comment, change the score, etc.
To do this, you need to go to the BB entry, find your rating and choose Edit Your Rating option. In case of non-payment you should definitely do that.

HTH
Magda
BB Moderator

[Edited at 2004-06-24 21:31]


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 11:00
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
Raters can edit comments... Jun 24, 2004

Hi,

As long as no response is entered by the agency, raters may edit their comments (ratings), i.e. update them.

Jobs Area coordinators and Jobs/BB moderators can always be contacted via profile, in case the agency has responded.

On a general note, it is better to wait for a while before rating an agency or at least to rate an agency after having completed several jobs or a large project and having received payment.

Giuliana

[Edited at 2004-06-24 21:23]


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 07:00
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
This doesn't encourage rating Jun 24, 2004

Giuliana Buscaglione wrote:
On a general note, it is better to wait for a while before rating an agency or at least to rate an agency after having completed several jobs or a large project and having received payment.


Hi Giuliana

I have rated 8 outsourcers. If I had rated only those for whom I worked more than once or on large project(s), instead of 8 they would be only 3.
The more ratings the BB has, the better it is, don't you think so? Fortunately I never had to edit a good rating, but in that case I'd ask you, BB mods, to help me to do it.

Claudia


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 11:00
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
Case-sensitive Jun 24, 2004

Hi Claudia,


If I had rated only those for whom I worked more than once or on large project(s), instead of 8 they would be only 3.


Well, the point is that normally you can't have a complete picture of a business (agency/outsourcer) after having done a single short job. Short jobs are done quickly, small invoices normally paid without any problem. On the BB we can also rate (apart from the payment practice of an agency/outsourcer) the whole organization and provided support, of course as a personal experience. Support provided is a key question when doing projects and you can't really see it when doing a short job. Of course, there are also exceptions. Let's say that it is "case-sensitive"..


The more ratings the BB has, the better it is, don't you think so?


Yes and no, IMHO. Many raters do not update their comments.

As usual, ratings are to be taken with a pinch of salt...


Fortunately I never had to edit a good rating, but in that case I'd ask you, BB mods, to help me to do it.


Please do. Our "shop" is never left unattended

Giuliana


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Suzanne Blangsted  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:00
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Blue Board agency changes Jun 24, 2004

Interesting responses. Yes, I do wait, but after a rating has been done, it is impossible to go into the same rating to change it as "it has been sent" and the agency has replied. We need to be able to get back at any time and comment as agencies changes policies, managers, gets into financial problems, which "they" don't tell "us" about and then we are hung out to dry. Reply to attempts at changes thru Bloue Board is : "You cannot edit your rating for this agency because the agency has posted a reply to your original comment"

[Edited at 2004-06-24 22:11]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:00
English to German
+ ...
Contact a Jobs moderator Jun 25, 2004

Hi again,
Interesting responses. Yes, I do wait, but after a rating has been done, it is impossible to go into the same rating to change it as "it has been sent" and the agency has replied.

Only if the outsourcer has replied. Otherwise you're free to change your comment.
This is not by accident, but on purpose: in practice, this prevents "tit-for-tat" wars from developing. Both sides have one "shot" each.

We need to be able to get back at any time and comment as agencies changes policies, managers, gets into financial problems, which "they" don't tell "us" about and then we are hung out to dry. Reply to attempts at changes thru Bloue Board is : "You cannot edit your rating for this agency because the agency has posted a reply to your original comment"

Giuliana already pointed out that you can contact the Jobs moderators in this case - I'd say you'll get a response within 24 hours max. (usually much less than that). If the situation has changed, we'll remove the original rating/response pair, opening the way for a new rating. Bear in mind that outsourcers sometimes try to force translators to remove a rating by threatening to withhold payment otherwise. This mechanism provides some protection against this practice, too - as some outsourcers had to discover, such practice may result in a suspension of their job posting rights.

Best regards, Ralf


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Anjo Sterringa  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:00
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Fair warning Jun 25, 2004

I was wondering..... why some agencies with good ratings and a bad name (and ridiculous rates), which in itself is a strange thing, took such pains to answer all those people that posted the (good)ratings!
Now I finally understand! I had no idea, and I think that the original reason for this non-editing rule (no long discussions) opened the back door for agencies bullying their translators into favourable rates. As soon as they comment on the given rating, that's it, the rating cannot be edited anymore - unless the translator knows he/she has to ask the moderator! I would not hesitate twice, but it may be a barrier for some.
Anyway - this will make me look at the Blue Board in a completely new way! Thanks for the warning!
Anjo

Sometimes I am so fixed on rates that I mix them up with ratings! It would not get past the proofreader!

[Edited at 2004-06-27 11:05]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:00
English to German
+ ...
That's why we keep telling people... Jun 25, 2004

Hi Anjo,
You could see things from a different perspective. Moderator involvement can actually help solve problems.

I had no idea, and I think that the original reason for this non-editing rule (no long discussions) opened the back door for agencies bullying their translators into favourable rates.

I take it you're referring to ratings, right?
We are aware of such tactics, and actively take measures against those who employ them. Obviously, you won't read about it here.

However, a system where translators could change a rating after a response would even be more open to bullying: you can only force someone to do something if that's a possibility. The way things stand, there's no way around the moderator - rest assured that we'll ask why a rating should be changed.

As soon as they comment on the given rate, that's it, the rate cannot be edited anymore - unless the translator knows he/she has to ask the moderator! I would not hesitate twice, but it may be a barrier for some.

Why? Judging by the amount of messages we get, it can't be much of a barrier...

I will propose an additional entry to the BB FAQ, indicating that jobs moderators can remove ratings in the event of a changed situation. Other than that, I can only reiterate the warning in the FAQ:


10. How reliable is the Blue Board?

The reviews posted here are not confirmed in any way, and represent the opinions of the reviewers only. Things to consider when evaluating reviews are the activity levels, identity verification status, membership levels, registration numbers and other characteristics of the reviewers.

Notwithstanding the reviews posted here, members are encouraged to form their own opinions from their experiences in working with, or negotiating with, clients directly.


Best regards, Ralf


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 11:00
German
+ ...
Renewing ratings Jun 25, 2004

Hi everyone.
Giuliana Buscaglione wrote:
On a general note, it is better to wait for a while before rating an agency or at least to rate an agency after having completed several jobs or a large project and having received payment.

I fully agree with Giuliana. Please note that as an agency owner I am usually on the receiving end of the rating. My thought is: A rating that is given only after a while of working together, payments being made etc. is more meaningful than one that says "I translated something for them last week and they were very nice."

And for that precise reason I would LOVE to get "renewed ratings". These would so much more adequately reflect our way of continuously doing good business - we still pay our invoices on time, even after the fiftieth job. And we are still supportive and we still provide our translators with clear instructions and so forth.

But on the other hand, I do not want translators to change their one rating back and forth because if there ever IS trouble, I want people to see that there is a HISTORY where there have been good times and there might have been bad times (but there will likely be good times again). And I want them to see that even if someone feels bad about working with us now, that it was not always so. If there's just one rating, then the background story is lost and people will probably get a wrong idea of what the real state of affairs is.

Which is why we ALWAYS respond to the ratings we receive, to lock them. Better safe than sorry. But as I said, renewed (=additional) ratings would be great. Maybe the ProZ.com staff could make it so translators can give each agency a maximum of four ratings per year, one in each quarter. Of course I know that due to the unbureaucratic way in which customers and suppliers are brought together on ProZ.com, we will never have as elaborate and as comprehensive a rating system as, say, eBay or so.

Oh, by the way: If any of "our" translators read this: If you have been working for us on a few projects, we would love to get a rating from you.

Benjamin, tectranslate (Germany)


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 11:00
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
No. of jobs done for this agency Jun 27, 2004

I for one would like to know the no. of jobs a translator has done for the rated agency.
This would give the reader a chance to "rate" the ratings, so to speak. If a translator has done several jobs for this particular agency, the rating may seem more reliable than a rating from a translator who has only done one or two jobs. This would be handy in cases where there are great differences in ratings, I think.
Sometimes I come across an agency, where approx. half the translators have given very low ratings, and the other half have given high ratings. In these cases I would like something more than the mere ratings to go by.

Also, translators should be required to enter a comment!!! It is not much use to me, when a translator has entered a low rating and made NO COMMENTS! I am not sure whether to trust this rating; the translator may be cross for some other reason than non-payment. Would it be possible to make this field mandatory? Or does noone else think this is a problem?


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:00
English to German
+ ...
Good suggestion Jun 27, 2004

Thanks for this one...
I for one would like to know the no. of jobs a translator has done for the rated agency.
This would give the reader a chance to "rate" the ratings, so to speak. If a translator has done several jobs for this particular agency, the rating may seem more reliable than a rating from a translator who has only done one or two jobs. This would be handy in cases where there are great differences in ratings, I think.

...noted for the next upgrade of the BlueBoard!

Best regards, Ralf


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