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How to fight non-paying clients?
Thread poster: Ethiotrans

Ethiotrans
Local time: 21:26
Amharic to English
+ ...
Jul 1, 2004

How to fight non-paying clients?

Our approach is post their profile in our web site? We call it "The Blacklist".
Do you think that will work? Is this a good approach?
Do you agree or disagree? Let us know. How about if this non paying client is not member of proz.com? How do you fight it?


[Edited at 2004-07-02 11:31]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
BlueBoard / Termination Policy Jul 1, 2004

ProZ.com has various mechanisms to fight "bad apples". You should already be aware of the BlueBoard - my fellow moderator Evert Deloof-Sys pointed this out to you in a thread you posted quite some time ago.

Posting ratings and comments on the BlueBoard will achieve the effect you're trying to get with your "black list". The difference is that the BlueBoard also allows for positive feedback, and - perhaps more importantly - there are already thousands of entries in there, so there really isn't a need to start from scratch.

Did you post ratings for these companies you're referring to?


Still we see these companies are offering projects here at Proz.com

ProZ.com operates a Termination Policy that is designed to block access for proven non-payers. Jobs moderators actively enforce this policy - but we need you to enter a BB rating, and to advise jobs moderators in case of non-payment.

So, please contact any jobs moderator, or contact me through my profile if you wish.

Regards, Ralf


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Ethiotrans
Local time: 21:26
Amharic to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Jul 1, 2004

Ok I will use that approch

[Edited at 2004-07-02 10:30]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
Please go ahead and enter BlueBoard ratings Jul 1, 2004

Hi again,

I did not know you have such a powerful mechanism at proz.com ; I never rate any one so far.

Er... you were told about the BlueBoard by two moderators in the thread I mentioned initially...?

Now how can you trust and help other people? It is really hard world

It is indeed, but you know what? I have numerous customers that I work for without a written contract. Now I would never recommend that to anyone, particularly if you don't know them personally - what I'm trying to say is that it is possible to have that sort of relationship, even in a competitive market.

The situation with people you get to know via the web is very much different: you simply cannot accept work without taking precautions:

- Check the customer's details (phone directory, Whois search to cross-check details shown on their website, other cross-references).
- Check the customer's payment practices (BlueBoard and other PP lists).
- Make sure you get a proper purchase order, with all relevant details, before starting work.

Last but not least: don't hesitate to expose non-payment.

HTH, Ralf


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Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 06:26
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Trust Jul 1, 2004

Yes, life can be hard. Good business is based on trust. However, we must weigh the risks and make calculated decisions. The better off you are financially, the more risks you can take. Advice: get yourself in a good financial position.

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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:56
English to Tamil
+ ...
Come on Ethiotrans, get your act together Jul 2, 2004

You were informed in unambiguous terms about the BlueBoard way back in January 2003 itself. Yet it is strange that you mention about your ignorance of them.

You write:"That day I saved his company from trouble, but what he and his company did was the opposite, they tried to recruit my best friend (my interpreter) in my back, and they called her and offered her an assignment, she showed me the application form they sent her. I called the guy told him why he did that and he told me his co-worker made a mistake. But they did it for the second time and third time. You know what I did not charge them too."

What did you expect? Before going into that let me say it has nothing to do with non-payment. If they had not paid your friend and made her run around for money, that is reprehensible. On the other hand they offered her more job. Is it your case that your friend should work only for you? Is there any contract between you two to that effect? Naturally an outsourcer is always on the lookout for good translators and if he sees one, he will definitely offer work to her. I don't think they need consult you in the first place. He does not require anybody's permission, period.

Regards,
N.Raghavan


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Ethiotrans
Local time: 21:26
Amharic to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Narasimhan Raghavan Jul 2, 2004

Dear Sir

Let me make clear some thing here.
Who told you these non paying clients are new? Didn't you read the line that said "they did not pay us more than a year"? That means these are the same clients before I had that posting. Still they did not pay us. Also I did not say I am not paying my friend for her translation work? Of course we do pay her that is why she told us about this company. One more thing, we support not just one language, we do support lots of them, when fellow translation company comes for help we help them out. That works lost, and we established lots of friendships all over the world, but some companies are taking that approach in other way and try to bypass us, but they can not break the strong bond we have with our translators and interpreters. We recruit only honest and loyal people. That is why we are catching those requests.

So you are telling me to say "No", ok we will, but "what goes around comes around"

Our principle is creating a good relationship and cooperation with all translation companies and establishing a mutual assistance program with them. Most of the time that works and we are planning to to do it in the future.

[Edited at 2004-07-02 11:39]


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:56
English to Tamil
+ ...
Let me clarify what I wanted to say Jul 2, 2004

Neither did I say that the non-payers are new. I was rather expressing my surprise that you wanted a black list to be constituted and when your attention was drawn to the blueboard, you said that you did not know about its existence, when in fact you were informed of it more than one year back, as pointed out gently by Ralf.

Nor did I imply that you did not pay your friend. On the other hand I told that it was not as if she was not paid by the other outsourcer. I also said that the outsourcer's offering work to your friend has nothing unethical about it in the absence of any exclusivity agreement between you and your friend.

Regards,
N.Raghavan

Ethiotrans wrote:
Who told you these non paying clients are new? Didn't you read the line that said "they did not pay us more than a year"? That means these are the same clients before I had that posting. Still they did not pay us. Also I did not say I am not paying my friend for her translation work? Of course we do pay her that is why she told us about this company.


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Ethiotrans
Local time: 21:26
Amharic to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I got it! Jul 2, 2004

Well we are in the same boat,

1. Some of the clients I have are not part of Proz.com and not sure if they will read the Bluebaord,
2. Yes you are right I didn't know you can rate and write some comments at Blueboard. I just brought this issue because I received a new project from the same client (they broadcasted the project) and I was thinking the client is going to do the same damage to others.

I think we are both clear on this issue. But still I am not sure what to do if the client is not part of the Proz.com.

Also I will use some of the feedback you guys brought, I think that is the main reason I brought this issue here.

Thank you every one.


[Edited at 2004-07-02 12:47]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
BlueBoard also contains entries for outsourcers outside ProZ.com Jul 2, 2004

Hi again,
1. Some of the clients I have are not part of Proz.com and not sure if they will read the Bluebaord,

That's irrelevant - the BlueBoard contains numerous outsourcers who don't have a ProZ.com profile. Simple reason: non-members can post jobs, too.

But still I am not sure what to do if the client is not part of the Proz.com.

Read the BB FAQ...

7. How can I rate an agency that is not listed on the Blue Board?

If you would like to rate an agency that is not yet listed on the Blue Board, you may add the agency yourself from the "Add Agency" tab.


HTH, Ralf


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vixen  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 07:26
Member (2002)
English to Dutch
+ ...
BlueBoard serves to inform translators Jul 2, 2004

It doesn't really matter whether or not an outsourcer reads the BlueBoard ratings. The whole point of the BlueBoard is that translators can check out potential clients.

If translators have had bad experiences with a particular outsourcer, they can use the BlueBoard to urge other translators to be careful. On the other hand, if they have only positive things to say, they can share that info with their fellow translators as well.

Notorious non-payers can be banned from the ProZ site, as Ralf already pointed out.


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 07:26
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
I would say Jul 2, 2004

that Blue Board indeed works, for example there are several Agencies with not too bright Blue Board record, who, as I have observed, already for months frantically seeks Latvian translators, and, judging from their repeated postings on this and other translation sites, not very successfully.

[Edited at 2004-07-02 15:40]


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Ethiotrans
Local time: 21:26
Amharic to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
BlueBoard Jul 2, 2004

Hi All,

I followed your advice and entered a BlueBoard rating for one of the compnay, strangely enough, I am not the only person who is entering these ratings, this company has seven ratings and six of them are "not get paid". This company told me they went out of business (it was a long time ago) but I saw that they are still doing the same damage on other translators. If the BlueBoard is following this "bad apples" why the company is still here?


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:26
English to German
+ ...
Contact the Jobs moderators... Jul 2, 2004

Hi again,
I followed your advice and entered a BlueBoard rating for one of the compnay, strangely enough, I am not the only person who is entering these ratings, this company has seven ratings and six of them are "not get paid". This company told me they went out of business (it was a long time ago) but I saw that they are still doing the same damage on other translators. If the BlueBoard is following this "bad apples" why the company is still here?


Because all those who complain about non-payment apparently ignored this message which is displayed if you enter a negative rating:


Note: If you are reporting non-payment for work that you performed as agreed, if you have documentation to support this, and if there are previous non-payment reports, please contact a Jobs Moderator.

ProZ.com Termination Policy


The purpose of this message is to give moderators an indication of non-payment issues. I take your posting as a notification (although I would have appreciated a direct message, to speed up the process...), and will follow this up.

Regards, Ralf


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