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xml files: How do you charge xml files?
Thread poster: mps1

mps1
Spain
Local time: 21:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
Jul 21, 2004

I know that we can't talk about rates. I only want to talk about percentages.

Do you charge xml files as standad Word files? Or are your rates higher when working with xml files? If your rates are higher (I think they should be, xml files are very complicated) in which percetage. Thank you all. MPS


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Geneviève von Levetzow  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:37
Member (2002)
French to German
+ ...
No at all... Jul 21, 2004

I have the same charges as for Word files.

With a CAT, it is not very complicated;), and more simple in same cases.

Geneviève:)


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Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:37
Member (2004)
English to German
+ ...
Same price per word Jul 21, 2004

I do not consider xml files to be more complicated than word files. I charge the same price/word.

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mps1
Spain
Local time: 21:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I use Trados... Jul 21, 2004

Geneviève von Levetzow wrote:

I have the same charges as for Word files.

With a CAT, it is not very complicated;), and more simple in same cases.

Geneviève:)



Thank you both. I use Trados, but I had never used XML files. Now a client has aske me this. I found it slow, because you have to pay attention where and how you write, tags, and all that. But if you think that at last one gets used......


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:37
English to German
+ ...
DTD/XML Schema Jul 21, 2004

Hi MPS,
I found it slow, because you have to pay attention where and how you write, tags, and all that.

You shouldn't have to sort that out yourself - didn't your customer provide a DTD file (document type definition) or XML Schema, so you could create a proper .ini file that identifies tags?

Best, Ralf


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mps1
Spain
Local time: 21:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, they did Jul 21, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi MPS,
I found it slow, because you have to pay attention where and how you write, tags, and all that.

You shouldn't have to sort that out yourself - didn't your customer provide a DTD file (document type definition) or XML Schema, so you could create a proper .ini file that identifies tags?

Best, Ralf


Hi Ralf,
Thank you very much for your answer. Yes they gave mi a DTD file. But in Spanish you sometimes (very often in fact), you have to change the order of the sentences, of adjectives, it is very diferent from English. Then you have to pay a lot of attention with tags. I admit I have done this only twice, but I think it is slower than just writing. That's why I asked. Perhaps German and English have a similar structure and that's why you don't find it heavier than a Word document. MPS.


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Peter Linton  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:37
Member (2002)
Swedish to English
+ ...
XML can be time-consuming Jul 21, 2004

I think you have a valid point. I have recently been working on quite a large XML project (over 30,000 words German to English, in several files), with many tags in each line (by the way, I hope you are using TagEditor, not WB?!?!?).

When I started, it seemed straightforward, but you are right, all the tags made it more difficult. It was often necessary to change the word order - "Press button" in English is the other way round in German, and if they are surrounded by various different tags, it can be tricky and time-consuming to work out where exactly the English words should go. It is also harder to see the final result (in my case the XML files are being used to produce PDFs).

There were also one or two nasty surprises. One XML file was a list of items in two columns, with no punctuation. Trados TagEditor couldn't digest that - in effect, the first segment was thousands of words long, and finally TagEditor just stopped responding. I am sure there is a good solution somewhere, but I added some temporary punctuation to the XML file, and then everything worked reasonably OK.

Anyother surprise was when I tried to save as a Target Language file. Saing as Bilingual took just a few seconds - but one XML file took 5 minutes to save - and my computer is pretty powerful.

In short, XML can be plain sailing, but it can be a pain - and you may not find out until after you have quoted a price.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:37
English to German
+ ...
Authoring issues Jul 21, 2004

Hi Lars,
There were also one or two nasty surprises. One XML file was a list of items in two columns, with no punctuation. Trados TagEditor couldn't digest that - in effect, the first segment was thousands of words long, and finally TagEditor just stopped responding. I am sure there is a good solution somewhere, but I added some temporary punctuation to the XML file, and then everything worked reasonably OK.


We had a similar discussion in a recent thread - see the response from Trados which I quoted there.

HTH, Ralf


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mps1
Spain
Local time: 21:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I learnt a lot Jul 22, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

We had a similar discussion in a recent thread - see the response from Trados which I quoted there.

HTH, Ralf


Hi Lars, Hi Ralf,

Lars, of course I'am using Tag Editor and my PC is also very potent. Thank you.

Ralf, I read all that recent thread. It was very interesting. I learnt a lot. But now, I am more convinced that this system is slow and heavy, and that it should be charged more expensivily. The problem is that I have already quoted. Mirta.


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Andrew Steel  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:37
Spanish to English
It depends on the tasks you are required to perform Jul 22, 2004

As you're finding out, translating an XML file can be a lot more complicated that working with a simple RTF or DOC file.

Firstly, the file needs to be processed to protect the tags. If the client does this, there should be no extra charge. If you're required to, then an extra percentage is perfectly reasonable as protecting the tags usually requires work to identify internal tags and configure the processing software, and to check afterwards that there haven't been any unfortunate deletions.

Secondly, as you've pointed out, the way in which everything gets more complicated by the need to change word order makes translating XML files more disjointed and similar to working with PPT or DTP files, which lots of people charge extra for.

Bear in mind that we charge for our time and that the piece rate that we give should be a reflection of the time required to do the job properly (in a competitive market, of course).

By the way, you also need the tools and expertise to do the job properly, which not every translator possesses, and is another reason to justify charging more for XML than for RTF and DOC files.

That said, if the client processes the files and takes responsiblity for any errors that may arise in their side of the process, and if you are translating between say Spanish and French, which have a very similar grammatical structure, then it may be reasonable to charge your standard rate as the work will not, in principle, take longer than if working with an RTF or DOC file.


Andrew Steel


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mps1
Spain
Local time: 21:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
File needs to be processed???? Jul 22, 2004

[quote]Andrew Steel wrote:

Firstly, the file needs to be processed to protect the tags. If the client does this, there should be no extra charge. If you're required to, then an extra percentage is perfectly reasonable as protecting the tags usually requires work to identify internal tags and configure the processing software, and to check afterwards that there haven't been any unfortunate deletions.

Hi Andrew,
What do you mean by processing the files for protecting the tags? Probably I don't have to do that because I have already done a small work and all I did was that history of the DTD fole, and .ini.

This particular work is from English into Spanish. I have sent my question-doubts-subjetc to the Forum "Traducción en España", which I think is the biggest forum in Spain. When I have the opinion people who usually translate from English into Spanish I'll let you all know. Thank you all very much. Mirta.


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Milos Prudek  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:37
English to Czech
+ ...
Charge some extra Jul 24, 2004


But in Spanish you sometimes (very often in fact), you have to change the order of the sentences, of adjectives, it is very diferent from English. Then you have to pay a lot of attention with tags.


Not only in Spanish but in many other languages too. I translated more than 20 XML projects. It's more time-consuming than regular translation. I would charge extra, say 10 to 30%.


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