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After translating client wants my TM - charges?
Thread poster: Günter Whittome

Günter Whittome  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 06:15
Member (2005)
Chinese to German
+ ...
Aug 11, 2004

A prospective client wants me to provide him with the relevant TM after I've finished the translation. How shall I charge him for it? Sometimes you get the impression clients want our TMs as a kind of litte "extra" for free. An idea that I categorically oppose. All the effort and know-how we put into it, esp. in my case with German/English Chinese! In my view the client profits from it anyway through high terminology and translation consistency. So, I may be prepared to sell my TM to the client but I'm not prepared to give it to him for free.
Any suggestions? Maybe double price? Or plus 50%? After all, if the client can use my TM, he can save costs in the future by reducing job assignments to me.
2nd question: how to charge the client if he wants me to set up a TM for him from scratch? I suppose my presence would certainly be needed on site - maybe charge by daily rate, similar to interpreting? How many days would be reasonable?
Günter Whittome


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Judy Rojas  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 19:15
Spanish to English
+ ...
It depends Aug 11, 2004

If you are going to translate, let's say a financial document and you will be using a financial TM that you have developed over the years, you can just tell the client that the information in your TM is proprietary and not for sale. They will understand that.

You can, however, after translating the client's documents, create a new TM and perform the cleanup function, making sure that you have selected "Update TM". That will create a TM with only the client's segments in the TM.

You can provide that at no cost, since the client can do it himself by just requesting that you deliver "uncleaned" files.

As for installing a TM at the client's site, you can do that and charge by the day or half day, depending on where the client is located and the time it will take you to go and come back from the client's premises.

HIH,

Ricardo

[Edited at 2004-08-11 21:02]


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Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 23:15
Member (2003)
English to Czech
+ ...
Another thread Aug 11, 2004

See the following thread on sending uncleaned files to the client (the advice was: do it for free):
http://www.proz.com/topic/22332


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:15
Member (2005)
German to Spanish
Agree Aug 11, 2004

Ricardo Martinez de la Torre wrote:

You can, however, after translating the client's documents, create a new TM and perform the cleanup function, making sure that you have selected "Update TM". That will create a TM with only the client's segments in the TM.

You can provide that at no cost, since the client can do it himself by just requesting that you deliver "uncleaned" files.

Ricardo

[Edited at 2004-08-11 21:02]


Where is the problem?

Regards


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Rahi Moosavi  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 18:15
Member (2004)
Farsi (Persian) to English
+ ...
Agree Aug 12, 2004

My clients give me previous TM's and I supply them with the updated TM's after doing assignments for them, free of charge.

In my opinion, it's normal to give them the TM for free. As mentioned above, they could ask you to provide uncleaned files and have the TM easily by themselves, or even use winalign and make a TM.


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Günter Whittome  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 06:15
Member (2005)
Chinese to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Don't quite agree - but thanks for your feedback Aug 12, 2004

Basically, the tools I use are none of client's business. He/She (I'll use "he" in a generic sense asks for a flawless translation and he gets a flawless translation. What tools I use to achieve this is my own know-how. If I ask someone to come into my house and repair the wiring, I don't care what tools he uses, I just want it repaired so that I can use the electricity reliably and safely. If, however I know of a certain tool that enhances quality and safety I may ask him, if he uses it. In this sense I may tell a client "Yes I do use TM and terminology management".
Giving away TMs and/or glossaries that I have built up during the years is of course out of the question, that's not what we're talking about. We're only talking about segments from the client's specific job assignment. And, by the way, the client would need a TM with the same structure, segmentation rules, that I use, otherwise it won't work properly.
You did make a point, however, by saying, if I don't provide the client with the TM he "could" create it himself from the source and target files or from an uncleaned document. He "could", but "would" he? Aligning documents can be a quite tedious and boring task and the source text is not always provided as a file but only on hardcopy. In such a case, to get started, I have to first scan and edit the source text which can be quite time consuming,too - and no way to charge for that.
When the client gets a TM from me, I save him all these tasks - and that is what he should pay for - and he gets a boost in productivity for nothing. I feel a surcharge of 50% would be appropriate, but probably difficult to be accepted under the circumstances. I'll probably charge something like 20-30% extra.
We shouldn't give our assets away too readily. In Germany, translator is not a protected profession (in the sense that anybody can call him/herself a translator). Respect for our profession begins with how much we value it ourselves. As someone else put it in another posting: if respect decreases, earnings will too.
As to setting up a TM at the client's premises I'll think of an hourly, half-day or daily rate as appropriate. After doing it once, calculating one lump sum may be a good thing.
Thanks again to everybody.


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fcl
France
Local time: 23:15
German to French
+ ...
Is translation to become "cheap as dirt"? Aug 16, 2004

[quote]Günter Whittome wrote:

Basically, the tools I use are none of client\'s business. He/She (I\'ll use \"he\" in a generic sense asks for a flawless translation and he gets a flawless translation. What tools I use to achieve this is my own know-how. If I ask someone to come into my house and repair the wiring, I don\'t care what tools he uses, I just want it repaired so that I can use the electricity reliably and safely.

...

We shouldn\'t give our assets away too readily. In Germany, translator is not a protected profession (in the sense that anybody can call him/herself a translator). Respect for our profession begins with how much we value it ourselves. As someone else put it in another posting: if respect decreases, earnings will too.

************

You are totally right I believe. Besides, everything that is given for free becomes worthless. Let us think about that.

Cheers,
François


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Angelina Galanska  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:15
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
I agree. I just asked a client for 50 dollars to create a TM Oct 6, 2015

Günter whittome wrote:

Basically, the tools I use are none of client's business. He/She (I'll use "he" in a generic sense asks for a flawless translation and he gets a flawless translation. What tools I use to achieve this is my own know-how. If I ask someone to come into my house and repair the wiring, I don't care what tools he uses, I just want it repaired so that I can use the electricity reliably and safely. If, however I know of a certain tool that enhances quality and safety I may ask him, if he uses it. In this sense I may tell a client "Yes I do use TM and terminology management".
Giving away TMs and/or glossaries that I have built up during the years is of course out of the question, that's not what we're talking about. We're only talking about segments from the client's specific job assignment. And, by the way, the client would need a TM with the same structure, segmentation rules, that I use, otherwise it won't work properly.
You did make a point, however, by saying, if I don't provide the client with the TM he "could" create it himself from the source and target files or from an uncleaned document. He "could", but "would" he? Aligning documents can be a quite tedious and boring task and the source text is not always provided as a file but only on hardcopy. In such a case, to get started, I have to first scan and edit the source text which can be quite time consuming,too - and no way to charge for that.
When the client gets a TM from me, I save him all these tasks - and that is what he should pay for - and he gets a boost in productivity for nothing. I feel a surcharge of 50% would be appropriate, but probably difficult to be accepted under the circumstances. I'll probably charge something like 20-30% extra.
We shouldn't give our assets away too readily. In Germany, translator is not a protected profession (in the sense that anybody can call him/herself a translator). Respect for our profession begins with how much we value it ourselves. As someone else put it in another posting: if respect decreases, earnings will too.
As to setting up a TM at the client's premises I'll think of an hourly, half-day or daily rate as appropriate. After doing it once, calculating one lump sum may be a good thing.
Thanks again to everybody.


We shouldn't indeed boost the client's productivity for free, so in the future they can request discounts based on repetitions.

A client just sent me 2 page PP and requested me to start a TM for them. I asked for additional 50 dollars. Or they indeed, can do this themselves. I can simply work in the PP file or any source file, which they provide me with and save some of my time.

[Edited at 2015-10-06 23:08 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-10-06 23:09 GMT]


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:15
Partial member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Additional services and/or work needs to be charged for Oct 7, 2015

Günter whittome wrote:

A prospective client wants me to provide him with the relevant TM after I've finished the translation. How shall I charge him for it? Sometimes you get the impression clients want our TMs as a kind of litte "extra" for free. An idea that I categorically oppose. All the effort and know-how we put into it, esp. in my case with German/English Chinese! In my view the client profits from it anyway through high terminology and translation consistency. So, I may be prepared to sell my TM to the client but I'm not prepared to give it to him for free.
Any suggestions? Maybe double price? Or plus 50%? After all, if the client can use my TM, he can save costs in the future by reducing job assignments to me.
2nd question: how to charge the client if he wants me to set up a TM for him from scratch? I suppose my presence would certainly be needed on site - maybe charge by daily rate, similar to interpreting? How many days would be reasonable?
Günter Whittome


Charges are in order IMO. Either for creating and maintaining a TM for a specific project for a client who asked for it (not if you're doing this for yourself of course) and in addition handing it over to the client - that's another story altogether (I don't think I would do the latter anymore). Then there is the issue of accepting a TM from the client and using it - but using it either to expand it (accepting whatever is in it) or "creating" your own new TM based on some of the TM you have been given (incl. checking and/or changing terminology).

This IMO is however a complex issue and deserves far more discussion. It also depends on many things; whether you look at it as a freelancer (independent service provider) or as an in-house translator under a certain employment contract or whether you gave your rights away by signing an NDA addressing this issue. In any case, you would need to look at the work you're doing, the additional services you provide, the legality of it all and then arrive at a decision (yes, I'll do it or no, I won't) and, if yes, you need to figure an adequate charge. I think the legal ramifications have so far in most discussions been totally ignored or misunderstood. I am sure that with the use of more and more TMs, we will run into some very important legal issues.

See also:
http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/288242-do_you_simply_give_your_translation_memory_tm_away_for_free.html


http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/287990-translation_memory_tm_is_the_translators_intellectual_property_ip.html


[Edited at 2015-10-07 01:33 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-10-07 01:36 GMT]


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DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
charge Oct 7, 2015

No real end client have ever asked me or any my colleagues to send TM or even a glossary. IF some mid-men and offices wanted to get byproduct--obviously, for farther processing and usage--then it was agreed beforehand--right in the contract, for the only real goal is to drop the translator/s out.

Though it might seem nice to ask a dentist to provide me all his tools and stuff he used while filling-in my tooth--free of charge, or have a baker bringing all the stuff he used while baking me a cake--for free, even a hairdresser would be happy to give me his scissors and accessories she used to cut my hair--as a gift, let alone cut hair, and so on)

I simply see no point doing something 'for free' while in biz, perhaps but shill/booster.


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Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 22:15
Dutch to English
+ ...
Much ado about nothing Oct 8, 2015

I have a good client, a big serious agency in the Netherlands, who always ask for a TM. They also send me TMs for every job, free of charge! There seems to be a lot of problems here about sharing knowledge for free, I hope those offended by this principle never use Wikipedia or any of the other free resources out there.

Of course I could charge for the TM, and find myself with less work and more time to write long posts on here


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