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paying problems
Thread poster: JPaul ROSETO

JPaul ROSETO
Local time: 14:00
Italian to French
+ ...
Dec 9, 2004

Hello everybody,
I have accepted a work of translation of 10 pages done the work and sent the bill to the client 3 days ago, but I did not received anything yet. The contact told me to send the bill to the firm.
I presume if it does not pay I can't do anything? is there a system to ensure the payment of the word done by a translator?
thanks


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xxxIreneN
United States
Local time: 07:00
English to Russian
+ ...
Did you mean 30 days? Dec 9, 2004

Because this is the normal turnaround for a freelancer's invoice to be paid.

[Edited at 2004-12-09 23:39]


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JPaul ROSETO
Local time: 14:00
Italian to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
payment problem Dec 9, 2004

IreneN wrote:

Because this is the normal turnaround for a freelancer's invoice to be paid. And what do you mean when you say you can't do anything?


It is about 3 days I have sent the work (10 pages translation) directly to the client that is a firm and not a translation agency. I don't know this client because it is the first time I work with it. I mean this relation "client and translator" is based on confidence, I mean the translator send the translation to the client and the client pay. But the client if it wants can receive the work and never pay, so what can I do if that happens?

thanks


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Helene Diu  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:00
Member (2004)
English to French
A few questions Dec 10, 2004

Jean-Paul,

1) Has the firm received your invoice ?
Did you post it, fax it, e-mail it ? Ring your contact or client and ask whether the invoice has been received.

2) What are the payment terms of the company ?
Most clients in France pay after 30 days, or even 60 or 90. Ring the accounting department of your client and ask them what their payment terms are. Even if you have a statement on your own invoice saying "Paiement à réception de facture", some client will ignore this and follow their own payment practice.

3) In any case, do you have a purchase order or any type of document (e-mail, fax etc.) confirming that the company ordered the work from you ?
I hope you do. Otherwise, if the company plays 'dead', you can only blame yourself for accepting work without any kind of written confirmation, there's in my opinion no way you can claim anything back from them.
If you do, then ask the "Tribunal de Commerce" or search the Internet, I'm sure you'll find the legal procedure to apply (lettre de mise en demeure de payer, etc.)

Anyway, it's only 3 days ince you sent your invoice. Even in the ideal dream case where they send a check back by return mail, you should allow a couple more days for the mail to arrive !

Helene


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:00
English to German
+ ...
What were the payment terms agreed? Dec 10, 2004

Hi Jean-Paul,
First of all, can you indicate what payment terms you agreed upon at the outset? 3 days sounds extremely short, as in most companies invoices need to be approved first, and payment is usually made by another department. But of course it all depends on what was agreed beforehand.

It is about 3 days I have sent the work (10 pages translation) directly to the client that is a firm and not a translation agency. I don't know this client because it is the first time I work with it.

Did they acknowledge receipt of your work?

Did you check on their references beforehand? Are they listed on the ProZ.com BlueBoard, or on any payment practices list? Did you double-check the address details?

I mean this relation "client and translator" is based on confidence, I mean the translator send the translation to the client and the client pay. But the client if it wants can receive the work and never pay, so what can I do if that happens?

Assuming that your client does not pay (and it sounds as if it's too early to say that), you would need to send them a reminder, setting a final deadline, after which you could start collection procedures.

Payment issues are crucial, of course, but more importantly: you should ask yourself these questions before accepting work from an unknown customer. Demanding advance payment (at least for a part of the job) is also a good idea.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 06:00
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
No rush Dec 10, 2004

If it's only been 3 days, they may not even have received the work (unless it was sent by e-mail). I would wait a few more days, then contact them to confirm that they have received the translation and that it is satisfactory. They may mention at that time what they plan to do about payment. If not, you should wait until at least 30 days have passed to inquire about your invoice.

As others have pointed out, these details should really be agreed upon ahead of time.


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JPaul ROSETO
Local time: 14:00
Italian to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
hope everything will be right Dec 10, 2004

Tina Vonhof wrote:

If it's only been 3 days, they may not even have received the work (unless it was sent by e-mail). I would wait a few more days, then contact them to confirm that they have received the translation and that it is satisfactory. They may mention at that time what they plan to do about payment. If not, you should wait until at least 30 days have passed to inquire about your invoice.

As others have pointed out, these details should really be agreed upon ahead of time.


Hello everybody and thank you all for all your answers.
I have looked at the Blue Board listing and the company at whom I have sent my invoice appears into it. The same company proposed a job into Proz.com site. I had sent the translation to this company on December the 2nd. I have no purchase order, I just agreed on the price of the translation and sent it. I have contacted the contact to ask details on the payment and wait at the moment.


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:00
English to German
+ ...
Just agreeing on the price is not enough Dec 10, 2004

Hi Jean-Paul,
I also hope things will be alright, but the the details you agreed upon - as you say - are far from sufficient.

I have looked at the Blue Board listing and the company at whom I have sent my invoice appears into it. The same company proposed a job into Proz.com site.

...neither of which would indicate whether or not they're reliable.

I have no purchase order, I just agreed on the price of the translation and sent it. I have contacted the contact to ask details on the payment and wait at the moment.

Ask yourself this...
Would you lend someone money whom you have never met in person, simply on the basis of a contact established on the internet? Well, that's exactly what you appear to have done: by sending your work, you have extended credit to the outsourcer. Now ask yourself what you would like to know about someone you extend credit to.

Exactly: at the very minimum, you would need to make sure that the person and/or company you're dealing with have given you accurate contact details. Also, you would want some sort of contractual agreement, setting out the basic terms of your business relationship - including payment terms, of course.

ProZ.com is a venue, and although a dedicated team of Jobs moderators are always there to try and keep fraudsters away, neither ProZ.com nor moderators are involved in any bilateral business relationship that may be entered into as a result of a contact established on the site. It's vital to bear in mind who's responsible for managing your risks: you.

Best regards,
Ralf


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xxxNicolette Ri
Local time: 14:00
French to Dutch
+ ...
A client which is a firm Dec 10, 2004

Jean-Paul wrote:
It is about 3 days I have sent the work (10 pages translation) directly to the client that is a firm and not a translation agency.

not a translation agency, and in the Blue Board? I hope you did not sent something directly to the client of a translation agency?


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JPaul ROSETO
Local time: 14:00
Italian to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I agree with you Dec 10, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi Jean-Paul,
I also hope things will be alright, but the the details you agreed upon - as you say - are far from sufficient.

I have looked at the Blue Board listing and the company at whom I have sent my invoice appears into it. The same company proposed a job into Proz.com site.

...neither of which would indicate whether or not they're reliable.

I have no purchase order, I just agreed on the price of the translation and sent it. I have contacted the contact to ask details on the payment and wait at the moment.

Ask yourself this...
Would you lend someone money whom you have never met in person, simply on the basis of a contact established on the internet? Well, that's exactly what you appear to have done: by sending your work, you have extended credit to the outsourcer. Now ask yourself what you would like to know about someone you extend credit to.

Exactly: at the very minimum, you would need to make sure that the person and/or company you're dealing with have given you accurate contact details. Also, you would want some sort of contractual agreement, setting out the basic terms of your business relationship - including payment terms, of course.

ProZ.com is a venue, and although a dedicated team of Jobs moderators are always there to try and keep fraudsters away, neither ProZ.com nor moderators are involved in any bilateral business relationship that may be entered into as a result of a contact established on the site. It's vital to bear in mind who's responsible for managing your risks: you.

Best regards,
Ralf


Can you tell me what is the procedure Ralf when you accept to do a translation? thanks


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 08:00
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Procedure Dec 11, 2004

Jean-Paul wrote:
Can you tell me what is the procedure Ralf when you accept to do a translation? thanks


I might forget something, but anyone can help.

- First you must check whom you're dealing with: address, phone number, webpage, and also check that the info you have is true and confirmed by other means.

- Second check whether the client is known (Blue Board, Payment Practices lists).

- Agree with the client on what must be done, for which rate, and sign a contract (P.O.). Either the client sends you a Purchase Order, or you send it to him. There must be your and his contact details, description of the job (type of document, number of words, rate/word, total, currency, delivery and payment terms, how payment is due...). If you sent it to him, you must ask to send it back signed, by fax.

- Ask for an acknowledge receipt when you send the translation, and if the client doesn't answer, call him.

- As soon as you notice that payment is late, contact him in order to confirm that they already paid.

This is what I have in mind for now.

Claudia


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JPaul ROSETO
Local time: 14:00
Italian to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thank you Claudia for your answer Dec 11, 2004

thank you Claudia for your answer

Jean-Paul


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:00
English to German
+ ...
Claudia said it all Dec 11, 2004

Hi Jean-Paul,
Claudia already gave you a comprehensive overview.

Giuliana Buscaglione and I gave a presentation on these issues at the recent ProZ.com Conference in Oxford; our presentation notes also contain a few hints on what to look out for.

Best regards,
Ralf


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JPaul ROSETO
Local time: 14:00
Italian to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
the name that does not pay me yet is in the blue board list Dec 20, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi Jean-Paul,
Claudia already gave you a comprehensive overview.

Giuliana Buscaglione and I gave a presentation on these issues at the recent ProZ.com Conference in Oxford; our presentation notes also contain a few hints on what to look out for.

Best regards,
Ralf


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JPaul ROSETO
Local time: 14:00
Italian to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
the name of the company in Poland who does not pay me yet appears in the blue board listing Dec 20, 2004

the company who did not pay me yet appears in the blue board listing. I have contacted it several times by email to know when they will pay me but they did not answered at the moment. I precise this firm had sent me 10 pages to translate, I have sent back the translation without any contract between them and I. I have also the name of the person of this firm in Poland which contacted me to do the translation.
Would you threaten them to say their name to Proz.com if they don't pay me in order to make them bad advertisement?

I need your advice before doing any action

thanks


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