| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | 500 word test translation--too long? Thread poster: Whitney Maslak
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I know there's been a lot of topics on here about test translations, so I apologize if I'm repeating a question that's already been asked. I was contacted by an agency that wants me to do a 500-word test (for free, of course) before they will discuss giving me any work. I've done a few tests before, but they were no longer than 250 words. I told them that, because I am working on other translation projects right now, I am only able to do free tests of no more than 300 words. They wrote back and ... See more I know there's been a lot of topics on here about test translations, so I apologize if I'm repeating a question that's already been asked. I was contacted by an agency that wants me to do a 500-word test (for free, of course) before they will discuss giving me any work. I've done a few tests before, but they were no longer than 250 words. I told them that, because I am working on other translation projects right now, I am only able to do free tests of no more than 300 words. They wrote back and said they can't reduce the length of the tests.
Am I making a mistake by turning them down? I only have a year of professional experience, but at the same time I really don't like giving my work away for free. I do have other paid projects right now so it would take time away from those.
I feel like I need to put my foot down and set my own standards instead of just following whatever the agencies want. Thoughts? ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Fossey 
Canada
Local time: 11:11
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Really too long | Aug 31, 2015 |
500 words is really too long. 200 words is more like a reasonable limit.
On the other hand, when you are starting out you may need to be a little flexible until you have built up a clientele.
Please be sure to check the potential client out on the BlueBoard. For a client to insist on a 500 word free test raises red flag #1.
[Edited at 2015-08-31 15:28 GMT]
| | | | | Free Translation? | Aug 31, 2015 |
Hello Whitney, looks like they want a free translation, rather than a free test! Acceptable tests have just 250-300 words, not 500 and usually agencies accept these limits once they are pointed out, so I would suspect they want a free translation. Did they set you a deadline? If so, that's a sure proof if they say they want test soon. If you accept, I think it means they will assume you will accept their terms -rate of payment, time of payment, deadlines, method of payment. And you have no guara... See more Hello Whitney, looks like they want a free translation, rather than a free test! Acceptable tests have just 250-300 words, not 500 and usually agencies accept these limits once they are pointed out, so I would suspect they want a free translation. Did they set you a deadline? If so, that's a sure proof if they say they want test soon. If you accept, I think it means they will assume you will accept their terms -rate of payment, time of payment, deadlines, method of payment. And you have no guarantee you will get any feedback or that they will give you work. Now it's up to you. My 2 cents. Hope it helped. Good luck. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | There's no free lunch | Aug 31, 2015 |
Money does matter.
Never do test translations for free.
Suggest that the prospective customer orders a translation and that you translate part of it. Perhaps a piece somewhere in the middle. Send it in to be checked.
If the customer is satisfied then complete the translation and invoice. If the customer is not satisfied then both parties can forget it...
Simple and profitable.
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Jan Willem van Dormolen (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 17:11
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Put your foot down | Aug 31, 2015 |
300 for a free test translation is max. Anything above that is a job.
What you could offer: "Pay the test, but if I *pass*, I'll deduct the costs from my first invoice."
That way you have a guarantee against an agency that passes off jobs as test translations, and against agencies that simply spread tests around left, right and center but never come through with real jobs.
| | | | | My bad habit | Aug 31, 2015 |
Jan Willem van Dormolen wrote:
300 for a free test translation is max. Anything above that is a job.
What you could offer: "Pay the test, but if I *pass*, I'll deduct the costs from my first invoice."
That way you have a guarantee against an agency that passes off jobs as test translations, and against agencies that simply spread tests around left, right and center but never come through with real jobs.
For such free lunch service, I frequently return the agency with machine translated texts.
It is a rather abusive professional practice but translators deserve to be respected as well. I move toward a stronger freelance service provider.
Soonthon L.
| | | | | Tell them they'll need to shorten it | Aug 31, 2015 |
Write something like "I'm happy to complete your sample, but I limit my free samples to 250 words." If they're a good agency (i.e. they're not trying to get you to do a client's translation for free) they should understand.
| | | | Whitney Maslak
United States
Local time: 09:11
German to English
TOPIC STARTER | Good advice, everyone! | Aug 31, 2015 |
Thanks, everyone. I'm thinking I will write back and offer to do the 500 words if they pay me at my regular rate (more than anything, I'm just curious to see what they say).
I also looked up the agency on the Blue Board and they had a lot of 5-star ratings, but also a few negative ones. The negative ratings all seemed to have to do with being paid late. One review said the agency was going to pay them for a test translation, and then they never paid. So I am a little wary of them n... See more Thanks, everyone. I'm thinking I will write back and offer to do the 500 words if they pay me at my regular rate (more than anything, I'm just curious to see what they say).
I also looked up the agency on the Blue Board and they had a lot of 5-star ratings, but also a few negative ones. The negative ratings all seemed to have to do with being paid late. One review said the agency was going to pay them for a test translation, and then they never paid. So I am a little wary of them now.
Also, from what I've been able to find out from their website, most of their work is in MT post-editing, which I won't even consider doing. So that also raises a red flag for me. ▲ Collapse
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Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 17:11
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| 500 words test translation | Aug 31, 2015 |
So if the project has 1,500 words, send it to 3 "new" translators, ask for a 500 words unpaid test translation, and then sell the 1,500 words translation to the client for some 400,00 Euros or USD... and polan your next vacation, while the translators never hear from you again.
The absolute free test translation is between 200 - 300 words, not a single word more. That is, if someone is starting out in the industry and has no samples available.
Since said agency usually ... See more So if the project has 1,500 words, send it to 3 "new" translators, ask for a 500 words unpaid test translation, and then sell the 1,500 words translation to the client for some 400,00 Euros or USD... and polan your next vacation, while the translators never hear from you again.
The absolute free test translation is between 200 - 300 words, not a single word more. That is, if someone is starting out in the industry and has no samples available.
Since said agency usually seems to deal with post-editing MT, there is a slight chance that they need some fresh material to base their (Google?) MT on. So yes, caution should be applied. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Will it be worth it in the end? | Aug 31, 2015 |
This is the question. I have been advised here and made this experience myself: the more time an agency asks you to invest before they give you the first job, the lower the rate they are prepared to pay and the less they respect you.
E.g. on one occasion, after clearly having stated my rates, I spent quite a bit of time on a test translation, constant communication for days, signing forms and contracts, signing on to their platform, familiarising myself with their CAT tool and agree... See more This is the question. I have been advised here and made this experience myself: the more time an agency asks you to invest before they give you the first job, the lower the rate they are prepared to pay and the less they respect you.
E.g. on one occasion, after clearly having stated my rates, I spent quite a bit of time on a test translation, constant communication for days, signing forms and contracts, signing on to their platform, familiarising myself with their CAT tool and agreeing to using it - and then they told me that they will pay me US0.05 per word!
I was quite annoyed, they did agree to my rate in the end but I never heard from them again. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 16:11
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Whitney Maslak wrote:
I'm thinking I will write back and offer to do the 500 words if they pay me at my regular rate.
Have they actually agreed to pay that rate (for future 'real' work)? If you do the test and then they only ever send jobs for well below your regular rate, you'll have wasted your time totally. I always get that bit in writing before I do any work - free or paid.
I also looked up the agency on the Blue Board and they had a lot of 5-star ratings, but also a few negative ones. The negative ratings all seemed to have to do with being paid late. One review said the agency was going to pay them for a test translation, and then they never paid. So I am a little wary of them now.
Also, from what I've been able to find out from their website, most of their work is in MT post-editing, which I won't even consider doing. So that also raises a red flag for me.
They don't seem to be brilliant potential partners. In fact, I'm wondering if they're one of the enormous multi-nationals. Those have such immense volumes of work to hand out that many freelancers think they're gods. They don't stop to think that they could do better with several smaller clients than being a faceless supplier to one of these corporate giants. But maybe that isn't what you're dealing with here .
| | | | | Get the agency to agree to your per-word rate first | Aug 31, 2015 |
I agree with Sheila. Before agreeing to do any unpaid test (let alone one of 500 words), ask the agency to agree to your per-word rate in writing - for future paid work, I mean. If they won't agree beforehand, I'd decline the test.
Best of luck.
[Edited at 2015-08-31 17:10 GMT]
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Peter Linton (X)
Local time: 16:11
Swedish to English
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Do you want this job or not? Admittedly 500 words is a long test, and by all means suggest that 300 words is more usual. But if the customer has decided that 500 words provides a better assessment of your skills, so be it. Look at it from the agency's point of view. If you were an agency with 2 tests returned, of equal quality, one with 500 words, the other 300, which would you choose?
It is not necessarily bad agencies who demand long tests, and it is extremely unlikely that any a... See more Do you want this job or not? Admittedly 500 words is a long test, and by all means suggest that 300 words is more usual. But if the customer has decided that 500 words provides a better assessment of your skills, so be it. Look at it from the agency's point of view. If you were an agency with 2 tests returned, of equal quality, one with 500 words, the other 300, which would you choose?
It is not necessarily bad agencies who demand long tests, and it is extremely unlikely that any agency will risk its reputation by getting you to do work for them for nothing. Such abuse of trust is more likely from a private individual, not an agency.
Ignore the bad advice given above. Your priority is to impress the customer, not to annoy him/her by seeking to impose your conditions on the bidding process. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 17:11
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
I disagree with Peter.
Let me repeat and sum up what I think are the most important pieces of advice:
500 words is too long for an unpaid test, but (of course) fine if it's paid.
Think about offering to deduct the costs from your first invoice.
Whatever you do: Make sure they agree with you range of rates before you do a test translation.
[Bearb... See more I disagree with Peter.
Let me repeat and sum up what I think are the most important pieces of advice:
500 words is too long for an unpaid test, but (of course) fine if it's paid.
Think about offering to deduct the costs from your first invoice.
Whatever you do: Make sure they agree with you range of rates before you do a test translation.
[Bearbeitet am 2015-08-31 17:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 23:11
Chinese to English
| Gricean communication | Aug 31, 2015 |
I sympathise with Peter's position above. I have in the past done long, free samples, when the payoff for passing the test was to be awarded a book contract. So I have no objection to them in principle, and I think agencies and clients should be supported in quality-related selection procedures.
However, I think about tests in this way. There are basically three norms operating at present.
1) Free tests of arbitrary length, decided by client.
2) Free tests of about 200-3... See more I sympathise with Peter's position above. I have in the past done long, free samples, when the payoff for passing the test was to be awarded a book contract. So I have no objection to them in principle, and I think agencies and clients should be supported in quality-related selection procedures.
However, I think about tests in this way. There are basically three norms operating at present.
1) Free tests of arbitrary length, decided by client.
2) Free tests of about 200-300 words.
3) No free tests.
The test your client offers you communicates something to you about what kind of an agency they are. Asking you to do 500 words for free says that the agency is either (a) very careful about quality - so ask them about their test scoring procedures and engage with them on quality issues; or (b) they want a relationship where the agency has all the power, including the power to set rates. (b) is much more likely. And you don't want to work with those agencies. ▲ Collapse
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