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Accept fuzzy matches in a CAT tool you don't have???
Thread poster: PCovs

PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 19:19
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
Apr 19, 2005

I have recently been asked by a long term client to accept a job counting fuzzy matches (and thereby discount for those) in a CAT tool I don't have!

I refused saying that I don't accept fuzzy matches that I cannot work with.
This was just a small job, but I see it as a matter of principle, and I think the client was unreasonable to request this in the first place.

Have anyone else had similar requests from clients, and what did you do?


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Andy Lemminger  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 11:19
Member (2002)
English to German
Yes Apr 19, 2005

Some agencies only keep on working with you if you accept these discounts. Their reasoning is that other translators can use the fuzzy matches and do give discounts for them. So if someone cannot use them it is basically the translator's problem and as long as the translator matches the price they do not care...

Don't jump on me now, I am just telling you what they think.

Take care

Andy


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 19:19
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
Without a CAT, I wouldn't ;-) Apr 19, 2005

Hi,

Well, it is pretty common to be asked, but the real loss would be to accept without using a CAT (read: taking advantage of the benefits provided by the use of a CAT). It is true that normally translators are not given a CAT, but have to buy it. Still, a CAT speeds up the workflow, makes you save a lot of time (you can invest in other translations) and assure consistency.

Fuzzy matching is not a problem per se: the real problem is the full rate per word you start from and the agreed percentages IMHO.


My 0.02

Giuliana


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Stefan Keller  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:19
English to German
Wrong question, in my view Apr 19, 2005

The question should be, whether you should accept a job at all, if you can't meet the client's requirements (which is a certain tool in your case). Even without considering fuzzy matches, you simply can't deliver what the client asks for, unless you use a compatible tool, in which case you can take advantage of the fuzzies again.

Regards,
Stefan


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 19:19
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I do have Trados, but... Apr 19, 2005

they counted the fuzzy matches in another CAT using the TM that belonged to this CAT. That was my problem. I do not get the TM, and still they expect me to accept the fuzzy matches.

The thing is that you can only buy so many CATs. You simply cannot have them all.
And when I started working for this particular client, he asked that I have Trados - no other tools.

Anyway, this was just to let some steam off, and it's also nice to hear a little more about the "world of clients".

)


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Stefan Keller  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:19
English to German
Oops! Apr 19, 2005

PCovs wrote:
I do not get the TM, and still they expect me to accept the fuzzy matches.


Well, this is of course something completely different! Fuzzies are close to *useless* if you don't have the TM and can't see the source differences at a glance.

Are you sure that the client is not talking about "internal" fuzzy matches? If not, then I would probably refuse to grant discounts for fuzzies unless I'm provided with the TM they originate from.

Regards,
Stefan


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Anjo Sterringa  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:19
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Conversion Apr 19, 2005

IMHO it's then the agency's responsibility to convert the TM to something you can actually use. They asked for TRADOS, you have it. Either they convert it, do some aligning to create a new TM or provide you with the other CAT. How can you check the source differences of the fuzzies or check for concordance without a TM? Pretty horrendous.
I refuse translations that require CAT tools I do not have (but I have quite a few by now!)
You do know some CAT tools/TM's can actually talk to each other I take it? (SDLX, TRADOS, Wordfast). Limited, but possible.
I had to insist this evening for a TM as well: there is xx fuzzy matches, % and all. I opened the files: no TM. Oh, there is no TM for Dutch they said. I asked them to insist, as you cannot pretranslate without a TM being available of course. It took a few hours, but in the end the 'non-existing' TM appeared. Oh well.


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 19:19
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
That's another story Apr 20, 2005

Hi,

Sorry, but I didn't understand that you had a CAT. I thought you had none.

PCovs wrote:

they counted the fuzzy matches in another CAT using the TM that belonged to this CAT. That was my problem. I do not get the TM, and still they expect me to accept the fuzzy matches.


Well, without a TM I don't accept any scheme. And I don't see why I should, too, if I have to translate all words. Any TM can be exported from and imported into another CAT TM module, either as a *.TMX or *.txt format. I don't know about all CATs on the market, but Trados "communication" with SDLX, WordFast and DV3/DVX is really good.


Giuliana


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:19
German to English
+ ...
Accept fuzzy matches in a CAT tool you don't have??? Apr 20, 2005

PCovs wrote:

The thing is that you can only buy so many CATs. You simply cannot have them all.


All the major translation memory applications - Trados, Transit, SDLX, Deja Vu, Wordfast, OmegaT, Heartsome, and others - support the industry-standard TMX format for translation memories. It's quite astonishing how many people, particularly among Trados users, are unaware of this. "Trados essential" is often just a combination of ignorance and laziness.

Whether you give discounts for fuzzy matches is entirely up to you, of course.

Marc


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 19:19
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I didn't realize... Apr 20, 2005

MarcPrior wrote:

All the major translation memory applications - Trados, Transit, SDLX, Deja Vu, Wordfast, OmegaT, Heartsome, and others - support the industry-standard TMX format for translation memories.

Marc


I must admit that I am among the "unaware" in this case. It is not out of laziness, but since I got Trados I have been rather busy working and learning how to use this particular tool.

But that is nice to know, and next time my client asks me to do a job like this, I will insist on getting the TM-file.



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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 19:19
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
I'm afraid I don't see what the problem is... Apr 20, 2005

PCovs wrote:
I have recently been asked by a long term client to accept a job counting fuzzy matches (and thereby discount for those) in a CAT tool I don't have! ... I see it as a matter of principle, and I think the client was unreasonable to request this in the first place.


Unreasonable? No. The client thought that you had access to a tool which could save him money, and he requested that you use it in such a way that it saved him money, and there is nothing unethical or unreasonable about that.

It would be unreasonable for the client to expect you to save him money if you don't have the tool to save him money; on the other hand it would be unreasonable for you to expect him to grant you the contract and pay a higher price, simply because your workmethod is lacking.

In the end, I don't see what the problem is... the client thought that you had X tool, and you didn't, so obviously you don't qualify for the job. Be reasonable.


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 19:19
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
He KNOWS I have Trados only Apr 20, 2005

Samuel Murray wrote:

The client thought that you had access to a tool which could save him money, and he requested that you use it in such a way that it saved him money, and there is nothing unethical or unreasonable about that.



This client knows that I work with Trados - I have worked with them for a couple of years now.
He asked me to do the job, and I said I couldn't do it accepting those fuzzy matches, if he didn't provide me with the TM. He didn't.

I have thereby not accepted a job that I knew I couldn't do in the manner requested.
My client expected me to do the job - but at a discount.

I'm not saying it's unethical or anything, I simply wanted to know what others have done.



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Joeri Van Liefferinge  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 19:19
Member (2002)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Having the CAT tool or not doesn't even make a difference to me Apr 20, 2005

I never give discounts for fuzzy matches. Lots of clients have asked for them and believe it or not, I haven't lost one single client by refusing discounts. And I don't give away exact matches for free either. Oh yes, they always try, and they have every right to do so! But that's what negotiating is all about...
My view is that *I* am the one who has invested in my CAT tool, not my clients, so the benefits of it should be for me. The client already has the advantage of consistent terminology and the fact that I am able to deliver faster, and he even gets that advantage for free! So why give a discount for that extra service? I even know a colleague who charges 0.01 EUR per word extra if she's asked to use a CAT tool. And she gets away with it! And if she can, we all can.

Joeri


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Stefan Keller  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:19
English to German
That's only half of the story Apr 20, 2005

Joeri Van Liefferinge (King Darling Communications) wrote:
My view is that *I* am the one who has invested in my CAT tool, not my clients, so the benefits of it should be for me.
Joeri


Hi Joeri,

True, but you mustn't forget that there are countless agencies and projects where more than one translator is involved in a job's history. In these cases, *someone else* contributed to the TMs before you even take part in the project, so no investment at your end so far. If previous translations exist and the client is happy with them, why should they be willing to pay for them again?

Regards,
Stefan


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Fuzzies of different CAT tools cannot be compared Apr 20, 2005

Each CAT has its own secret definition of what a fuzzy match is, so they cannot be compared. But you could have analised the text with Trados and see whether your results would bring you more or less money than the results the client got with his CAT tool. Even with a possibly empty TM you can never know before you try..

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