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Bank fees.. Who should pay them
Thread poster: Mari Noller
Mari Noller
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:30
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Jun 7, 2005

At the moment I pay the fees myself, but at the end of a month I've lost over 100 dollars in bank fees. Paypal is especially expensive.

Do you pay the fees yourself or do you charge your client for them?


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 09:30
English to German
+ ...
I offer F.O.B price Jun 7, 2005

Hi! which means all costs incurred in this process are to be met by the outsourcer including VAT, Bankcharges etc.,Simply said the quoted price is my gross at works. These days I see some outsourcers are going for CIF included. Brandis

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Burkhard Ziegler  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:30
Russian to German
+ ...
client should pay bank (transfer) fees, our income is low enough Jun 7, 2005

I think the client (agency, outsourcer) should pay all transfer fees. We are already earning very few and should still bear the transfer fees?!

Maybe, as an internet payment platform you could consider moneybookers.com.

Of course, you should be able to inform the client about all possible costs (money transfer as far as you can [the client should ask at his bank, of course], possible express mail etc).


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Rafa Lombardino
United States
Local time: 01:30
Member (2005)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
They should pay for it, since it's their bank... Jun 7, 2005

Whenever a client insists on the wire transfer (I also accept US checks and PayPal transfers!!!), I let them know that they should check with their bank how much it will be charged for the transaction to take place. Then they should add such fee to the total stated by the invoice, since bank fees are not included in the price I charge for the translation. If my bank charged any fees (it doesn't because it's a federal credit union...), I'd be responsible for them on my end, so they should take responsibilities for their bank's policies...

Good luck!


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Aleksandr Okunev
Local time: 11:30
English to Russian
Agree with Rafaela Jun 8, 2005

Rafaela Lombardino wrote: ... they should check with their bank how much it will be charged for the transaction to take place. Then they should add such fee to the total stated by the invoice, since bank fees are not included in the price I charge for the translation. If my bank charged any fees (it doesn't because it's a federal credit union...), I'd be responsible for them on my end, ...

Exactly.
I used to work in export/import, dealing with all sorts of companies, from widely known to tiny ones. Asking the seller to cover transfer costs is bad manners, a taboo, I have never ancountered one such request throughtout all the years, here, however, the general idea is "it should be negotiated". It's like we should agree I should not leave out pages from my translation or deliver it at all.
On the other hand, if any deduction is made from whatever lands here, I am responsible for this, and the payer cannot possibly foresee all the quirks of Belarussian law and/or regulations of one particular bank and should not cover this.
Stay well
Aleksandr
~~~~~~~~>


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Mari Noller
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:30
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Moneybookers Jun 8, 2005

I do actually have a moneybookers account, but some clients refuse to by with anything else than bank transfer.

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xxxFullCircle
Netherlands
Local time: 09:30
English to Dutch
Within Europe there should be no fees Jun 8, 2005

Within Europe there should be no transfer fees for amounts under 12,500 euros (don't know whether the payment has to be made in euros; I think so. After all we're in Europe, aren't we ? ).

Otherwise, I would negotiate.

I don't mind paying the fees, because it results in lower income taxes in the end. And its part of international business. Some countries still prefer cheques over bank transfers; they charge more for bank transfers than for cheques. That is totally beyond me in this modern age.

Good luck
Marion


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:30
English to German
+ ...
Standard euro cross-border transfers not necessarily free Jun 8, 2005

Hi Marion,
Slight correction, if I may:
Within Europe there should be no transfer fees for amounts under 12,500 euros

Not quite - the applicable EU directive says that the fees for standard cross-border transfers up to EUR 12,500 mustn't be higher than the fees for a domestic transfer. Although that means they're free in numerous countries, that isn't true for all countries within the EU.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Anabel Martínez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:30
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
fees for credit card transfer on Paypal Jun 8, 2005

I began using Paypal just a week or two ago, because a client requested it, and I found myself having to pay almost 4% because he paid with a credit card! (I thought it made sense if he paid via his own account, but he didn't, so I had to pay that). Would you also charge your customers Paypal fees or not? It's a lot of money, in the end!

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Burkhard Ziegler  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:30
Russian to German
+ ...
Fix the OUR-payment by contract; customer is not repsonsible for some contrie's special regulations Jun 8, 2005

Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
Asking the seller to cover transfer costs is bad manners, a taboo, I have never ancountered one such request throughtout all the years,


Aleksandr, I shall just send you a virtual rose for this statement!

It's a standard everywhere, only with translators customers start negotiating...
Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
here, however, the general idea is "it should be negotiated".


I think, it should be fixed in a contract, although sincere clients might consider it as an offence. I use to write something like this:

"The total invoice amount is due to payment untill YYYY-MM-DD by an international bank transfer to acct. xxx, BLZ nnnn IBAN DE84nnnnnxxx, SWIFT DRESDEFF, banks address. The total invoice amount must be credited in EUR without deductions, all transfer costs including the fees of intermediate and beneficiary's bank must be covered by the sender (OUR-transfer). EU-regulated standard payments are accpeted."


Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
On the other hand, if any deduction is made from whatever lands here, I am responsible for this, and the payer cannot possibly foresee all the quirks of Belarussian law and/or regulations of one particular bank and should not cover this.


Of course, I was writing about the European Union... If there occure with the difficult currency regulations in CIS (especially in Aljaksandr Hrihorevich's empire) the seller should check them by himself and include them into the seller's calculation.

All the best


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 09:30
German
+ ...
Bank fees are split Jun 8, 2005

Rafaela Lombardino wrote:

Whenever a client insists on the wire transfer (I also accept US checks and PayPal transfers!!!), I let them know that they should check with their bank how much it will be charged for the transaction to take place. Then they should add such fee to the total stated by the invoice, since bank fees are not included in the price I charge for the translation. If my bank charged any fees (it doesn't because it's a federal credit union...), I'd be responsible for them on my end, so they should take responsibilities for their bank's policies...

Hasn't all of this been discussed before?

Anyway, we usually split the fees in the way described by Rafaela - i.e., everyone bears the fees of their own bank. Usually this means we, the sender, pay the big fees as we're the ones who initiate the transaction and the recipient pays some smaller fee to his/her bank. I think it's only fair, because if you want to do business with clients abroad, you either
a) have to get used to your bank charging fees for incoming payments or
b) open an account abroad.

Obviously, though, your business partners should not make you pay their bank's fees.

We also use the PayPal system if it's available for that country. This is usually much cheaper than direct bank transfer.

Regards,
Benjamin


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Gillian Searl  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:30
Member (2004)
German to English
I don't use Paypal Jun 8, 2005

for that very reason. In most cases the charges are too high (unless you only use it as "virtual" money, i.e. use it to pay for stuff that accepts paypal but I almost never do).

I still have problems with US-based clients. I just got a small cheque, which my bank refused to cash because the bank charges were more than 50% of the value of the cheque [sigh].
It's not a big problem for me as I only work rarely for US-based companies. Maybe that will change now that the USD/EUR exchange rate is moving the other way. I am able to solve these small amounts within the family - I have relatives over there who sometimes have GBP sums to receive. So we try to avoid bank charges by getting cheques cashed in the respective countries and getting the balance when we visit (not very often).

Maybe one of us should take up the challenge: Low cost US-Europe bank transfers. Anyone looking to start a new business


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:30
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
You pay yours, I'll pay mine Jun 8, 2005

dinamin wrote:
At the moment I pay the fees myself, but at the end of a month I've lost over 100 dollars in bank fees. Paypal is especially expensive. ... Do you pay the fees yourself or do you charge your client for them?


Perhaps I'm naive, but I think its fair that the client pays his own banking fees and I pay mine. In other words, the amount that the client sends, is the amount mentioned on the invoice. It excludes SWIFT levies, for example. When the money arrives at my side, the bank deducts money for customs, currency conversion and administration... those amounts are for my account and is included in the amount invoiced.

If you're doing business with someone from a country for which you know the banking charges would be high, you can send a detailed invoice on which you specify both the amount for the job and the amounts for bank charges, but then this must have been the arrangement you had with your client. I do this when a new client wants to pay me USD 50 for a very small piece of text -- the bank charges would eat away most of that and leave me with almost nothing, unless I slap the bank charges on extra. Interpreters often add traveling costs as a separate item to their invoices... well, translators can do the same, sort of.


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Mari Noller
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:30
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I disagree Jun 8, 2005

If I get a payment through paypal (because this is the way the client wants to pay me) and I end up losing $15 in fees, or if I get a cheque and the bank charges me $14 to cash it, is it fair that I should pay for those fees?
I would have thought it'd be fair if the fee was split between the translator and the client.


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Karin Adamczyk  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 04:30
Member
French to English
Cost of doing business Jun 8, 2005

dinamin wrote:

If I get a payment through paypal (because this is the way the client wants to pay me) and I end up losing $15 in fees, or if I get a cheque and the bank charges me $14 to cash it, is it fair that I should pay for those fees?
I would have thought it'd be fair if the fee was split between the translator and the client.


Bank fees are a cost of doing business -- that's why there is an item for this in the chart of accounts in your accounting program.

What usually happens when you have a bank transfer is that your customer pays the fees charged by their bank and you pay the fees charged by your bank.

If your bank charges too much to cash a cheque in a given currency, negotiate a better fee or arrange another payment method with your customer. You can also shop around for a bank with lower fees for small businesses.

Yes, to answer your question, you pay the fees at your end. That is how it works in business.

In any case, these are details that you must discuss up front. If you now prefer to change the payment terms, you will need to discuss with your customer.

Take care,
Karin


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