Do you charge extra for lots of different files? Thread poster: Channa Montijn
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Channa Montijn 
Netherlands
Local time: 08:36
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
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Total wordcount of this job is approx. 80,000 words of which 2500 have to be translated. There are 50 different files.
The client will only pay for the translated words (so for 2500 in total), not for reps/full matches.
These files (cleaned and not cleaned) have to be delivered within 24 hours.
I do not have the time to take on this job, but I just wondered how you would handle such a job offer.
[Edited at 2005-08-25 14:55]
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| I charge by the hour | Aug 25, 2005 |
I had one similar job involving multiple TMs and previously translated files and only about 500 words in 20-odd new files which needed to be translated, but using the same terminology as in the old files. The agency suggested (and I accepted) a payment equivalent to an 8-hour working day for the job, as of course the time needed was far higher than just for the simple translation of a few hundred words.
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Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 09:36
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Charge somewhat more | Aug 25, 2005 |
The rates should reflect the amount of time the completion of the job takes.
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| A massive amount of secretarial work has to be paid for | Aug 25, 2005 |
Hi Channa,
To process 80,000 words, but only have to translate 2,500 of them, involves a massive amount of secretarial work, especially if you are given .pdf documents. As Marie-Helene says, it would take at least a full 8-hour day, and a price for all the secretarial work would have to be agreed upon.
Astrid
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Nicolette Ri (X)
Local time: 08:36
French to Dutch
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| 50 files is not very much | Aug 25, 2005 |
I already have seen translations involving several hundreds of files. The only problem is the number of words to be translated: if they are indicated in Word files (in another colour, for instance), this should not take much time. If you have to detect them yourselves, then of course you should charge for secretarial work, especially if you have been sent large PDF files (you also have to receive them and to send them back).
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| The job seems reasonable, although... | Aug 25, 2005 |
Channa Montijn wrote:
Total wordcount of this job is approx. 80,000 words of which 2500 have to be translated. There are 50 different files. ... These files (cleaned and not cleaned) have to be delivered within 24 hours.
I assume these are MS Word documents. Well, to me 50 files wouldn't be too many, but my question would be: how do I know which words to translate and which not to translate? If what you mean is that all words must be translated, but only 2500 of them are unique, then it should be a breeze.
If the files are in a nested directory tree, open MS Word and Windows Explorer side by side and open the files using drag-and-drop. Then remember to enable autotranslate-while-100% in your CAT tool. When you're done with all the files, duplicate the directory tree and do a cleanup on the copy. Et voila.
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| possible workaround using Trados | Aug 25, 2005 |
Export the unknown segments after analysis and translate only that on a separate Word file. Then autotranslate the lot using the appropriate options. That would limit the overhead for the other 80000 words you're not paid for. If no problems arise, only a few minutes would be on the house.
This of course would be acceptable only if context is not an issue and TUs can be easily translated on their own. And anyway, I would notify the customer about the strategy I would use and see what they ... See more Export the unknown segments after analysis and translate only that on a separate Word file. Then autotranslate the lot using the appropriate options. That would limit the overhead for the other 80000 words you're not paid for. If no problems arise, only a few minutes would be on the house.
This of course would be acceptable only if context is not an issue and TUs can be easily translated on their own. And anyway, I would notify the customer about the strategy I would use and see what they say before committing... ▲ Collapse
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| Out of their tiny minds | Aug 25, 2005 |
Channa Montijn wrote:
Total wordcount of this job is approx. 80,000 words of which 2500 have to be translated. There are 50 different files.
The client will only pay for the translated words (so for 2500 in total),
Haha, 'et voilá' using CAT tools - don't you believe it. Just having to open and close each file already takes time.
And are you supposed to turn a blind eye on the context? How are you going to know how to translate the few words in each file if you haven't got a clue what it is about? At least you'll have to read the rest....
I once had the same, the info came in bits, 'Are you available to translate about 2000 words (yes), Eehhh, it's more that that but we are not paid for repetitions (yes? frown), 'We are talking about 20,000 words or so and the project is divided in 50 files' (no way!!!).
Anyway, in such cases I think - they must be out of their tiny minds..... There ARE certain limits, and I find it almost an insult to get requests like that. Don't get me started....
Anjo
[Edited at 2005-08-25 16:52]
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Channa Montijn
Netherlands
Local time: 08:36
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Pay peanuts, get monkeys | Aug 25, 2005 |
Anjo Sterringa wrote: Channa Montijn wrote:
Total wordcount of this job is approx. 80,000 words of which 2500 have to be translated. There are 50 different files.
The client will only pay for the translated words (so for 2500 in total), Haha, 'et voilá' using CAT tools - don't you believe it. Just having to open and close each file already takes time. And are you supposed to turn a blind eye on the context? How are you going to know how to translate the few words in each file if you haven't got a clue what it is about? At least you'll have to read the rest.... I once had the same, the info came in bits, 'Are you available to translate about 2000 words (yes), Eehhh, it's more that that but we are not paid for repetitions (yes? frown), 'We are talking about 20,000 words or so and the project is divided in 50 files' (no way!!!). Anyway, in such cases I think - they must be out of their tiny minds..... There ARE certain limits, and I find it almost an insult to get requests like that. Don't get me started.... Anjo [Edited at 2005-08-25 16:52]
I do agree with everything you wrote. If you have one file with 80,000 words and just some changes, ok but 50 of them (and I managed up to 200 files, but got paid for the effort)... As a professional translator you would check every file on spelling, double spaces etc etc. And the client wants you to deliver uncleaned and cleaned files, which means extra work as well.
I just wonder how translators charge their overhead… it seems that not many do (apart from you and the translators who suggested an extra charge).
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| I remain unconvinced -- 50 files aint that much | Aug 25, 2005 |
Anjo Sterringa wrote:
Haha, 'et voilá' using CAT tools - don't you believe it. Just having to open and close each file already takes time.
Surely it does not take that much time... unless you have a very slow computer or a very unproductive CAT tool. To open the file, drag it to the blue bar at the top of the MS Word window. To close it, go Ctrl+F4 and answer "yes" when prompted to save.
And are you supposed to turn a blind eye on the context?
Well now, the nature of the logistics as required by the client tells me that the client is uninterested in context sensitive translation. After all, he wants to pay nothing for 77500 words! I would do my best to inform the client of the dangers of context-less translation, but if the client remains stubborn, then let him eat his cake, I say.
Of course I'm aware of context (see another thread in this line where I made specific comments about it). Autotranslation is not something I do unless the client specifically wants it and is aware of the dangers of it.
How are you going to know how to translate the few words in each file if you haven't got a clue what it is about? At least you'll have to read the rest...
True, but this project has a 31:1 repetition ratio, which tells me that reading three or four documents would be sufficient to know what the job is about. Besides, when you encounter an unknown term, simply do research about it then and there (either through Googling or through a context search of the translation memory).
Some jobs require reading the entire text before starting out on the translation, but with CAT jobs like this one, there just aint time and the client must be satisfied that you've done only your best and nothing more.
Channa Montijn wrote:
As a professional translator you would check every file on spelling, double spaces etc etc.
Don't you check those as you go along? I mean, do you truly do a rough (or sloppy) translation as a first draft and then refine your work during a second pass? Not me -- I check the translation of the current segment *before* I move on to the next one, so that I know that the entry in the TM is as good as it can be. The nature of the OP's job was clearly one in which the client expected no research and no fine-tuning beyond that which is merely adequate.
And the client wants you to deliver uncleaned and cleaned files, which means extra work as well.
Not really...? You do the translation on all the files without cleaning up, then you optionally do QC on the files, then you copy all files to a second location, and then you do a bulk clean on all the copies. What am I missing here?
[Edited at 2005-08-26 08:54]
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Pat Jenner (X)
Local time: 07:36
German to English
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| Whatever takes you time has to be paid for in some way | Aug 26, 2005 |
I've recently had two experiences of this kind. For the first job I hadn't realised how much time would be taken up with admin: just think of all the processes you go through from downloading the original to sending back the finished translation, leaving aside the actual translation, and so didn't negotiate any additional payment. When a second job with a similar structure came up, I offered the client three options: consolidate the files into a manageable number of longer files; pay me five min... See more I've recently had two experiences of this kind. For the first job I hadn't realised how much time would be taken up with admin: just think of all the processes you go through from downloading the original to sending back the finished translation, leaving aside the actual translation, and so didn't negotiate any additional payment. When a second job with a similar structure came up, I offered the client three options: consolidate the files into a manageable number of longer files; pay me five minutes per file as a file-handling charge; or pay my minimum charge per file (they went for the second option). After all, one of the reasons we have minimum fees is to reflect the disproportionate time that administration takes up compared to the length of the text.
Interestingly, I also raised the quality and consistency problems that are more likely to occur with a large number of very small files but was unable to persuade the client to consolidate the files, which I would have preferred. ▲ Collapse
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| Have a look at some other tools | Aug 29, 2005 |
Channa Montijn wrote:
Total wordcount of this job is approx. 80,000 words of which 2500 have to be translated. There are 50 different files.
The client will only pay for the translated words (so for 2500 in total), not for reps/full matches.
These files (cleaned and not cleaned) have to be delivered within 24 hours.
I do not have the time to take on this job, but I just wondered how you would handle such a job offer.
[Edited at 2005-08-25 14:55]
I assume you are using Trados. If you think you will receive similar "multi file projects" in future, you should take a look at DejaVu. DejaVu can handle many files as one big file (even files of different types and e.g. Trados rtf, doc and ttx files).
I think also SDLX can handle some types of files in this way.
Klas
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| Ditto OmegaT | Aug 29, 2005 |
Klas Törnquist wrote:
DejaVu can handle many files as one big file. ... I think also SDLX can handle some types of files in this way.
OmegaT also opens all files as a single set of text (although you can click to go to specific files).
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