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Discounts for using CAT tools
Thread poster: Walter Landesman

Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 18:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Apr 4, 2006

Hi everybody,

I know this topic has already been dealt with several trimes. But now I want to share with you an offer I got today by email.

"We are currently selecting new translators for a regular collaboration.
If you are interested, please be so kind to:
1- send us your updated CV with all the details (languages, programs and CAT tools you use, etc.)
2- state your basic rate for each language combination
3- state your minimal rate
4- indicate if you agree with our discounts for CAT tools:
100%/repetitions: 10% of full rate
Fuzzies 95%-99%: 33% of full rate
Fuzzies 75%-94%: 50% of full rate
No match: full rate
"

The following is part of my response.

"b) If I have to use any CAT tool, there would not be any discount. Most of
all, never THOSE discount rates you suggest.
I consider that insulting. Actually, I might have to over charge you for the money I had invested in buying this tool. So, discounts are out of the questions.
"
This kind of abuse really makes me mad, sorry.

Walter


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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:07
Spanish to English
Discounts Apr 4, 2006

[quote]Walter Landesman wrote:

I know this topic has already been dealt with several times.

Walter,
You will note the resounding response you have had, and at least you have got it off your chest!
The work of a translator is already heavily discounted before taking into account what you have just said about" matches, fuzzy matches,etc".
Another one of my pet hates is agencies wanting discount for bulk, as if you are a warehouse trying to get rid off already over-produced goods.
Well done for being firm


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:07
German to English
+ ...
Discounts for using CAT tools Apr 4, 2006

Walter,

I'm inclined to think that your reaction is counter-productive.

Why not take this customer's approach to its logical conclusion?

There is a case for saying that repetitive texts are easier and should therefore attract a lower fee. But by the same logic, non-repetitive texts are more difficult. So if the flat-rate, swings-and-roundabouts approach to charging is to be abandoned in favour of a scale of discounts, it follows that the base rate must be set correspondingly higher, since if a flat rate is assumed, it must be assumed to be the mean rate.

Then there are other variables: the type of text (instruction manual, publicity brochure, scientific paper), the subject area (nuclear physics, basket-weaving), the inbound text format (MS Word, HTML, MS Vario, faxed copy), etc. Any or all of these may justify adjustment to the price in either direction.

Ultimately, each text is unique, making it appropriate to charge a fee that reflects all the aspects of it. Upon receiving such a request from a customer, you could therefore simply offer to produce a quotation for the job in hand that takes all aspects into account.

Marc


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 22:07
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
You are keen to lose clients, yes? Apr 4, 2006

Walter Landesman wrote:
The following is part of my response.
"b) If I have to use any CAT tool, there would not be any discount. Most of all, never THOSE discount rates you suggest. I consider that insulting...


I think your approach is counter-productive. You won't win many clients by being insulting back at them simply because yoiu regard their demands or suggestions or queries as insulting.

Why not try a simple, sober, professional response like "I do not offer discounts for translation done using CAT tools."


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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 18:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
dignity Apr 4, 2006

Samuel Murray wrote:


I think your approach is counter-productive. You won't win many clients by being insulting back at them simply because yoiu regard their demands or suggestions or queries as insulting.

Why not try a simple, sober, professional response like "I do not offer discounts for translation done using CAT tools."


I only quoted part of my answer. The whole text was not insulting. I just said that asking that kind of discount was considered by me as insulting.

It is a matter of dignity, as it has already been argued and extensively discussed in many of the forums in Proz.

I suggest you to take a look at some of these forum related.

regards,


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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 18:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks for your support Apr 4, 2006

David Brown wrote:


Walter,
You will note the resounding response you have had, and at least you have got it off your chest!
The work of a translator is already heavily discounted before taking into account what you have just said about" matches, fuzzy matches,etc".
Another one of my pet hates is agencies wanting discount for bulk, as if you are a warehouse trying to get rid off already over-produced goods.
Well done for being firm


Thank you David for your support. Yes, I was pissed off and had to have got it off my chest.

Best regards,

Walter


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Wouter van Kampen
Thailand
Local time: 04:07
Danish to Dutch
+ ...
another solution Apr 4, 2006

Just don't answer, Walter.

A serious and well prepared answer indicating a serious rate will end up right in the dustbin of such an outsourcer.

What they expect is a beggar's rate.

In addition, it now seems to be in fashion not to answer invited tenders.

MarcPrior wrote:transh

Walter,

I'm inclined to think that your reaction is counter-productive.

--snip--

Marc


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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 18:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
not to answer Apr 4, 2006

titi-at-home wrote:

Just don't answer, Walter.

A serious and well prepared answer indicating a serious rate will end up right in the dustbin of such an outsourcer.

What they expect is a beggar's rate.

In addition, it now seems to be in fashion not to answer invited tenders.


That sounds good.
Thank you, titi.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 22:07
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Must be a cultural thing, then Apr 4, 2006

Walter Landesman wrote:
It is a matter of dignity, as it has already been argued and extensively discussed in many of the forums in Proz.


In my opinion being asked whether one would be willing to do something which you would consider demeaning, if asked during a process of negotiation between two equals, is not an attack on one's dignity. But I admit that this may be a cultural thing, and that asking certain things from certain people may be considered demeaning in itself, in some cultures.


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Peter Linton  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:07
Member (2002)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Take itor leave it. Apr 4, 2006

I agree with Sammuel Murray. In fact,. I owuld go further and say that there is no such thing as an insulting offer from a customer. There are low offers and high offers, but they are ultimately just that - offers of work. The customer is entitled to a businesslike response, not a response based on some notion of a translator's dignity. Get in there and haggle !

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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 18:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
That depends Apr 4, 2006

Peter Linton wrote:

I agree with Sammuel Murray. In fact,. I owuld go further and say that there is no such thing as an insulting offer from a customer. There are low offers and high offers, but they are ultimately just that - offers of work. The customer is entitled to a businesslike response, not a response based on some notion of a translator's dignity. Get in there and haggle !


I appreciate your comments.
However, I think that some offers cannot even be called that.

Of course, it always depends on cultural costumes - as Samuel says - and on your own needs and self-esteem.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Walter


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:07
Dutch to English
+ ...
Yep, get the customer and then deal with the details Apr 4, 2006

Peter Linton wrote:

I agree with Sammuel Murray. In fact,. I owuld go further and say that there is no such thing as an insulting offer from a customer. There are low offers and high offers, but they are ultimately just that - offers of work. The customer is entitled to a businesslike response, not a response based on some notion of a translator's dignity. Get in there and haggle !


Discounts are not so bad if the job is repetitive and extensive. I do many updates of previous manuals. I also have relationships with customers that go way back. You can make a pretty penny. I do insist on being paid for repetitions, though. I still check them even if they come from my own TM.


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Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 18:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
This is not the case Apr 4, 2006

Marijke Singer wrote:

Discounts are not so bad if the job is repetitive and extensive. I do many updates of previous manuals. I also have relationships with customers that go way back. You can make a pretty penny. I do insist on being paid for repetitions, though. I still check them even if they come from my own TM.


I agree that you may make a discount to your client on a repetition or if the job is repetitive and extensive. May be.

But this is not the case. This is only a prospect client. And just from the start, before even mentioning ANY project, just for the sake of the data base, he/she suggests several percentages of discount for the use of a CAT too (TRADOS, SDLX?).

It`s a different matter.


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