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SDLi - get real and diversify your prices! :(
Thread poster: Mariusz Stepien

Mariusz Stepien  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 20:39
English to Polish
+ ...
Aug 31, 2006

I just can't believe the prices set for Trados. Sure, 900 bucks for Americans or Western Europeans is not that much, but in countries like Poland, this is comparable to 3-4 thousand dollars. That's not change, it's serious money. Why doesn't SDLi realize they would earn more and get more users if they lowered the prices for poor and developing countries significantly? There is a huge translator base in such regions and because of the prices, their choice is limited to few CATs.
Luckily, there is Wordfast (which rules, by the way). It usually costs 180€, but for those 'underprivileged' countries, the price is cut by 50%! Not to mention it can be used free-of-charge for small and small-medium projects...
Now, 450$ for Trados is still much, because its basic price is ridiculous, similar to M$ Office (but even M$ offers a variety of versions with the cheapest costing around 100$), but lowering the price to anything below 300$ would be a huge step forward in reaching a whole new wide range of clients.
All resources should be available worldwide, otherwise it is much harder to compete for commissions/jobs... Not to mention the 'trados-only' jobs - what the heck is this?! It should be up to the translator what tools they use. Most important thing is that they return translated text of proper quality and in timely manner, not whether they use Trados, MetaTexis, Wordfast etc. along the way.
Until SDLi lowers prices, the translator community will remain divided...


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:39
German to English
+ ...
Western and Polish prices Aug 31, 2006

If you are working for western customers, you can presumably charge western (=global market) prices, and the cost of Trados, Deja Vu, etc. is just part of doing business on the global market.

On the other hand, Polish customers don't presumably "demand" Trados, surely? You could use a cheaper tool if you only work for Polish customers.

There is one CAT tool which only costs 20% of the normal price in Poland, but I can't remember the name of it off-hand.

Marc


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Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 20:39
English to Polish
+ ...
Almost all prices are the same, most salaries are different Aug 31, 2006

That is however our internal problem

In my opinion if you want to work you need tools. And it is a global market so it is hard to believe that some company will make a special bonus price. Why should they?

Does Mercedes sell cars at lower price here than in West Europe or make any special bonuses in Poland, probably not

2c from a Wordfast user


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Mariusz Stepien  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 20:39
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
... Aug 31, 2006

MarcPrior wrote:
On the other hand, Polish customers don't presumably "demand" Trados, surely? You could use a cheaper tool if you only work for Polish customers.


oh yes, there are such customers.

Piotr Wargan wrote:
In my opinion if you want to work you need tools. And it is a global market so it is hard to believe that some company will make a special bonus price. Why should they?


Wordfast does that, Metatexis offers low prices etc.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:39
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
As long they will offer lower prices, as long the market will be seen as a "low price" market Aug 31, 2006

And this is for sure not what we all want, or do I see the things wrong?
A general price lowering for Trados, SLDX or other CAT tools might be a good solution, but I say "might". MS has lowered the prices for it´s software, because the market demand was so. But obviously the CAT sellers are able to get the prices they now charge, so the possibility they will go lower is not big. The market is also much smaller than the market for MS tools.

The example with Mercedes or BMW is a very good one. BMW is selling car navigation (integrated) for 3.100 Euros. And people do buy that, although you can get a PNA or PDA navigation in Germany now starting from some 300 Euros (which is 10% of the factory price!).

SDL Trados does make offers sometimes - maybe then you could profit form one.

As for Trados-only jobs: letting the translator choose his tool is a very good option. But it demands, that the translator knows his tools and can use them properly. This is not always the case. And on top, the customer will surely have his processes standardized to a certain extend. So if he uses Trados, he will want all translators working with him to use Trados too. Then, if you are fit enough you can replace Trados internally by other tool and deliver Trados-like output. OTOH, if you use Trados, you are limited to it. You cannot deliver a DejaVu output for example. But Trados offers you (as DejaVu or SDLX also do) a freedom to accept nealry all formats of textes. This is a limitation of Wordfast AFAIK, as you are not so free then.

Regards
Jerzy


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Trevor Butcher
Local time: 20:39
English
900 dollars, ho hum, still a lot Aug 31, 2006

900 dollars is still a lot if you are just starting out anywhere in the world, but the problem may not be the price but the willingness to pay.

In comparison to starting many other businesses, starting out as a translator is relatively cheap. Maybe more costly than being a freelance streetsweeper but less than renting and stocking a shop. Most of the translators I work with here in Poland could afford Trados, but they don't want to make the investment, perhaps because the return on the investment is not so immediately obvious in comparison to the size of the investment - or the fact that they perceive 'westerners' as being more easily able to buy it. In fact, I know more translators with a car or a plot of land to build their future house on than with Trados, which may be more an effect of the aspirations of the society (or my collegues) than some cold financial reasoning.

The answer is not to worry about some good deal you think someone else is getting elsewhere, because there will be some other disadvantages to compensate for it - like being less competitive internationally. Creating a business plan so that you can clarify in you mind how you intend to achieve your goals within your environment is much more important.

Because I work out of Poland, my overheads are much less than in the UK. I don't have Trados, but I am buying a new flat - something I never even dreamed of back in the UK. Opportunities and choices!

Trevor


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Mariusz Stepien  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 20:39
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
... Aug 31, 2006

Jerzy Czopik As long they will offer lower prices, as long the market will be seen as a "low price" market


please... is linux market a 'low price market'? are open source tools like 'open office.org' make the market 'low price'? I don't think so. these are TOOLS. tools are used as an aid in providing a service. the value of the market is determined by the quality and variety of services, or so I believe...

Trevor: my point is that, although I have no intent of buying trados anytime soon, as I can cope without it, I would like to be given the option of buying it at a reasonable price, adjusted to the conditions of my country/region.


[Edited at 2006-08-31 11:54]


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Hester Eymers  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:39
Member (2005)
English to Dutch
+ ...
TGB Aug 31, 2006

Have you seen the SDL Trados 2006 Group Buy that is now running? (And closing soon.)

If you do decide to invest in this software, this is probably the best deal you are going to get...


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:39
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
This are two very different things Aug 31, 2006

Mariusz Stepien wrote:

Jerzy Czopik As long they will offer lower prices, as long the market will be seen as a "low price" market


please... is linux market a 'low price market'? are open source tools like 'open office.org' make the market 'low price'? I don't think so. these are TOOLS. tools are used as an aid in providing a service. the value of the market is determined by the quality and variety of services, or so I believe...

Trevor: my point is that, although I have no intent of buying trados anytime soon, as I can cope without it, I would like to be given the option of buying it at a reasonable price, adjusted to the conditions of my country/region.


[Edited at 2006-08-31 11:54]


Linux is open source, so per definition a free software.
Your comparison is as would you compare a tram ticket to having an own car. While Linus gives me no advantage in my business, Trados does. And Trados pays for itself, much faster than many would suppose.
OK, you can use free CAT tools - as far they are able to deliver what your customer demands.
What I wanted to say, is that you are claiming Poland to be a market with lower prices. The better way would be IMO to work on better prices in Poland. We are sitting in the same boat. And I have to pay the full Trados price and than compete with polish prices. This is definitelly not easy, as my costs here are not comparable to those in Poland (see Trevor and his flat). Let us better wort on better prices, than complain about Trados price. The price for Trados is also paid only once and you can use it several years (just a simple calculation: you use Trados 30 months and then it costs you only 30$ per month - is not that much anymore, isn´t it?). A simplest car is more expensive and gives you less value back for your money.

Regards
Jerzy


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Piotr Wargan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 20:39
English to Polish
+ ...
I am afraid, Aug 31, 2006

that we have come to confusion instead of conclusion about where and what is cheap and for whom.

To see how expensive things are for people living in the country A one should look at the prices and the salaries in this country only.
If you want to compare with the country B you should do the same. Then you can compare for example how much bottes of beer can a person buy for an average salary in the country A and B.
And thus you see where the life is cheaper and where the life is more expensive.

We could take Trevor's new flat as an example, if he has no objections

Let us make a short calculation:

take a price of one square meter of a flat in the UK and take an average salary in the UK

then take a price of an average square meter of a flat in PL and an average salary here:

you will easily get an answer to the question: where is it easier to buy a flat in the UK or Poland?

(for the colleagues who do not know the figures for Poland and would like to make their calculation and comparison: an average square meter of a new flat in a city other than Warsaw is around 3800 PLN ( almost 1000 EUR), the gross average monthly salary is around 2700 (roughly 700 EUR). After tax and conversion to EUR it could be a net amount of around 450 EUR. This salary fugure is an official average for the industry sector and there are people who earn much more and people who earn much less.

So (on an average of course) it is 2 months work for 1 meter square. I do not know how this is in the UK and would be grateful for some information.

It would also be interesting to know how it is elsewhere in the EU

Regards,
Piotr


[Edited at 2006-08-31 15:27]


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