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TRADOS RATES
Thread poster: Borja Rosales Ingelmo

Borja Rosales Ingelmo
Spain
Local time: 04:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
Nov 24, 2006

Hi, everyone!

My name is Borja Rosales, and would like to know if the following rates for TRADOS are too high or normal, taking into account that 0.06 EUR per source word is what I get for 0 % coincidences. This is to be presented to a Belgian agancy. Thank you!

RATES: 100% match: 0.02 EUR
95% - 99%: 0.025 EUR
85% - 94%: 0.03 EUR
75% - 84%: 0.045 EUR
50% - 74%: 0.05 EUR
0% - 49%: 0.06 EUR


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
What abysmal rates! Nov 24, 2006

However, leaving aside the question of the rate set, because you are really enquiring about percentages:

You should not normally give any reduction for 50% - 74% matches, or for that matter either for 75% - 84% matches. It will not take you any less time than the full amount to translate these TUs. As far as I know, the standard is to give discounts for 85% matches and over.

Anyhow, I think you should also increase the amount a little bit for the 85% and over matches.

Astrid


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Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 21:08
Spanish to English
I agree with Astrid Nov 24, 2006

I personally do not understand why having bought Trados which is not at all cheap and learnt how to use it, which is also complicated, you should then charge peanuts for your work and pass on all the benefits of your investment to an agency.
0.06 euro a word is a low rate without giving discounts on top of it.


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Aliseo Japan  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 11:08
Member
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
A different approach Nov 25, 2006

Hi,

I have been working in Japan with many agencies; among these only two require the use of Trados (I use Dejavu X instead, and they know this), and I accepted the fuzzy scheme only because:

One of these two agencies pays full rate even on 100% matches and repetitions.

The other one:

1 - Pays a sensibly higher rate right because they require translations to be done with a CAT tool, which they know very often is more of a burden than a way to simplify your work.

2 - Has implemented the following fuzzy scheme:

100% matches and repetitions: 25%
95-99% matches: 50%
84-94% matches: 75%
83 to New: 100%

Perhaps I have been lucky. However we all should remember that *if we want to do a better job from the writing skill point of view too*, using a CAT tool *in general* requires more time than translating from scratch. Or, at least this is my experience.

Kind regards

Mario Cerutti
http://www.aliseo.com/english/





[Edited at 2006-11-25 02:41]

[Edited at 2006-11-25 02:41]

[Edited at 2006-11-25 02:42]


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Francesca Verd  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:08
English to Catalan
+ ...
I think it's absurd Nov 25, 2006

I've always thought that this repetition business is absurd... Let's see... If you contract a plumber, do you expect him to have certain tools? And if he has them, do you expect him to charge you less for his job, because the wonderful tools that he has and which you asked him to have to give him the job make his work a lot easier?

Somehow I think that all this has got a little out of hand. Agencies ask you to have Trados and then, because you have spent a lot of money on that software, they expect to get discounts.

It is as if I asked my cleaning lady to come home with one of those very expensive vacuum cleaners with a water tank and then expect her to work at a lower hourly rate because she has bought that very expensive piece of equipment that makes her job easier.

No... if I want my cleaning lady to work more efficiently I am the one who provides her (and pays for it, of course) with whatever will make her work more efficiently.

But, of course... if translators told the agencies to provide them with Trados, or whatever software they thought necessary to do the job, Trados wouldn't have such profits...

So, basically, the software I use is my problem. I don't care for agencies that ask me to use Trados (or any other software) and then ask for repetition reduction. And, as someone said, 0.06€ is not a rate to die for. If you still have to give a discount for repetitions... it can turn out to be a low rate in the end.

I think that all this comes from something deeper. We, as freelancers are supposed to be the business and the agencies are supposed to be the clients. Ideally, they should buy a service from us at the price we quoted and not care how we do the job as long as it is satisfactory.

But somehow the agencies have taken the status of employers and we have taken the satus of workers. (Or should I have said that we have let them take that status?) So they feel entitled to tell us how to do the job and which tools to use. But they won't provide us with those tools...

Let's imagine that we do to other professionals what agencies do to us. Like telling a lawyer, a doctor, or our local supermarket what we are willing to pay for their services, what tools (software, infrastructure... whatever) we want them to have to use their services and when we will pay them... It's unthinkable, isn't it?

So maybe it is our fault that this is happening. Maybe we should try to educate our clients into the idea that they are our clients instead of our bosses. And probably we should convince ourselves first.


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Hipyan Nopri  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 09:08
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Completely right Francesca Nov 25, 2006

€0.06 = US$0.08 at present, what a low translation rate it is; let alone if it is further reduced by discount for word repetition.
To me, the term 'repetition' is not applicable altogether. It seems that CAT tools are misused by agencies to take advantage of freelance translators. What is the point of buying extremely expensive CAT tools if it eventually leads to low rates and discounts?
Then, we cannot just blame the agencies if they offer us a job of ridiculous rate. If we do not respect ourselves, how could others respect us?
For my language pair (and I live in a developing country), I set the mean rate of US$0.12; the actual rate may be slightly higher or slightly lower depending on technicality, turn around time, and payment immediacy.
Indeed, I lost many jobs offered by Asian-based, price-oriented agencies.
It should be noted that we should serve as the seller and the agencies as the buyer. Prices and discounts are determined by the seller rather than by the buyer.
We should be proud of our profession. Let us serve as the seller, not the buyer.


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Borja Rosales Ingelmo
Spain
Local time: 04:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you so very much for your replies Nov 25, 2006

Dear everone,
thank you so very much for your interest and help. I also agree with you all have explained, but the problem is: there will always be someone offering good services for low rates. so my question is, how can we, professional freelancers, make good money for our translations? Most agencies would laugh at us if we charged them 0.07 or 0.08 EUR per source word. I now know that from now onwards I will not be offering discounts based on repetitions because as our colleague from Portugal has said, who cares how we translate? The important thing is that we do, no matter what we use and as long as our work is well done. I wish all translations were plain texts without the TRADOS thing.
someone could tell me how can we give value to our work so that no translator charged less than what we believe is worthy? thank you


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Borja Rosales Ingelmo
Spain
Local time: 04:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Rates in Indonesia Nov 25, 2006

Hypian, and how can you manage to be assigned projects in a so high rate?

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esing
India
Local time: 07:38
Malayalam to English
+ ...
Need to set reasonable price Nov 25, 2006

The observations of Francesca Verd give a lot of guidance on the pricing of our service and the tactics to be adopted.

I have joined this forum out of curiosity with a vague intention to test the usefulness of Internet for getting paid on reasonable rate. I have participated by giving very few bids - by quoting, on an average US $ 0.08 per word subject to a minimum of US $ 25.00 The fact that none had responded to any of my bids is itself a proof that several professionals are undervaluing their own service.

It is said that competition works in capitalism amongst infinitesimal producers of goods and services such as potatoes and cleaning jobs.

Pricing for goods such as a razor blade produced by big corporates and services such as shipping organised by big shipping conglomerates are not set by competition.

It is time that professionals join to set an international minimum rate for translation.


[Edited at 2006-11-25 11:51]


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Irina Dicovsky  Identity Verified
Argentina
English to Portuguese
+ ...
If you consider 0.08 € a low rate Nov 25, 2006

Mind me, not that I consider it is low, far from that, but you should see some recent job postings on proz offering less than 0.02 US $ per word (job postings this week and the last, from agencies in Argentina and Brazil)! In 1996, average rates paid by publishing houses for medical translations here in Argentina were .10 US per word. They had dropped, or better, plummeted, but recovered a bit in the last 2 years.
Regarding discounts for repetitions, I don't consider they should be given...


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Hipyan Nopri  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 09:08
English to Indonesian
+ ...
It is more a matter of attitude Nov 26, 2006

Thanks for your question, Borja.

As you see, my rate seems to be so high, or may be the highest among the freelance translators living in Indonesia. You may be shocked if you compare the rates. Some of them offer US$0.02 and even US$0.01. The actual rate must be much lower because the agency will always try to bargain perseveringly. As a reference, the Indonesian Translators Association (Himpunan Penerjemah Indonesia) sets the MINIMUM national rate of US$0.03 per source word. Really surprising.

I live in Padang (West Sumatera province) whose people purchasing capacity (and the living costs) is extremely much lower than that of people in Jakarta (the capital). Regretably, our fellow translators there set amazingly low rates. This fact does not exert any effect on my stance, however.

Indeed, I lost many jobs, particularly those offered by Asian-based, price-oriented agencies. On my CV you can see that all my international clients are from Western Europe, North America, and Australia. Even though jobs do not come every month, I am satisfied with what I do. I will not try to get jobs by compromising my rates.

Of course, we are working at the free market, so people may set their rates as they want to. But this practice may lead to an impression on the part of the potential clients that the translators do not respect themselves. As a result, people will underestimate our profession. Eventually, it will ruin the translation market. To avoid this possibility, we ourselves should control the market. In this case, translators associations can play significant roles.

As I have said, prices are determined by the seller (we are the seller of translation services). In short, it is more a matter of attitude - to control or to be controlled.


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Cristóbal del Río Faura  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
The problem is... Nov 26, 2006

[quote]Borja Rosales Ingelmo wrote:

... but the problem is: there will always be someone offering good services for low rates.


Quite true, unfortunately. But really "good services"?

so my question is, how can we, professional freelancers, make good money for our translations?


By not offering €0.06 to agencies in countries where much more is paid. This is detrimental for you, for others and for the profession in general. Think globalisation upwards, not downwards.

Most agencies would laugh at us if we charged them 0.07 or 0.08 EUR per source word.


This is true in Spain, but NOT in Belgium, the Netherlands, France, United Kingdom, Germany, Scandinavia, U.S. and Canada.



Regards,
Cristóbal


[Edited at 2006-11-26 01:53]

[Edited at 2006-11-26 02:05]


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Registered Translator Lisbeth Thorsager  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 04:08
Member (2006)
English to Danish
+ ...
SO well said! I have always been wondering whether the agencies let their customers get the benefit Nov 27, 2006

Francesca Verd wrote:

I've always thought that this repetition business is absurd... Let's see... If you contract a plumber, do you expect him to have certain tools? And if he has them, do you expect him to charge you less for his job, because the wonderful tools that he has and which you asked him to have to give him the job make his work a lot easier?

Somehow I think that all this has got a little out of hand. Agencies ask you to have Trados and then, because you have spent a lot of money on that software, they expect to get discounts.

It is as if I asked my cleaning lady to come home with one of those very expensive vacuum cleaners with a water tank and then expect her to work at a lower hourly rate because she has bought that very expensive piece of equipment that makes her job easier.

No... if I want my cleaning lady to work more efficiently I am the one who provides her (and pays for it, of course) with whatever will make her work more efficiently.

But, of course... if translators told the agencies to provide them with Trados, or whatever software they thought necessary to do the job, Trados wouldn't have such profits...

So, basically, the software I use is my problem. I don't care for agencies that ask me to use Trados (or any other software) and then ask for repetition reduction. And, as someone said, 0.06€ is not a rate to die for. If you still have to give a discount for repetitions... it can turn out to be a low rate in the end.

I think that all this comes from something deeper. We, as freelancers are supposed to be the business and the agencies are supposed to be the clients. Ideally, they should buy a service from us at the price we quoted and not care how we do the job as long as it is satisfactory.

But somehow the agencies have taken the status of employers and we have taken the satus of workers. (Or should I have said that we have let them take that status?) So they feel entitled to tell us how to do the job and which tools to use. But they won't provide us with those tools...

Let's imagine that we do to other professionals what agencies do to us. Like telling a lawyer, a doctor, or our local supermarket what we are willing to pay for their services, what tools (software, infrastructure... whatever) we want them to have to use their services and when we will pay them... It's unthinkable, isn't it?

So maybe it is our fault that this is happening. Maybe we should try to educate our clients into the idea that they are our clients instead of our bosses. And probably we should convince ourselves first.




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