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PayPal and how it protects its users
Thread poster: Claudia Iglesias

Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:54
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Apr 23, 2007


I'd like to share with you something that happened to me recently.
Fortunately, the amounts were low, but it's very worrying to think that the same story can happen with bigger amounts.

First, I'd like to say that I have always been a PayPal happy user.
I also use it very frequently and I always have more than a thousand dollars in my account.

On January 3, 2007, a client who had already used my services contacted me asking for the translation of a small letter.
In his email his signature was his name and the name of the company where he worked.
As usual, I prepared my P.O., he signed it, I sent the translation and invoice and he paid via PayPal (amount: 20 euros). Great, everything working fine until then.

On March 27, I received an email from PayPal saying that this person had complained to his bank that he hadn't paid that (I understood that somebody had used his credit card fraudly).
This made me smile, because I thought that the client didn't remember that he had paid.
I answered to PayPal that I thought it was just a mistake and that I had a P.O., emails and invoice proving that that person had really requested a translation.
But convinced that the guy was honest, I wrote an email to him, trying to remind him what had happened on January. But I received no answer...

After a while, PayPal informed me that they had decided not to go further with this and that they had reimbursed the client. Moreover, I had 12 euros deducted from my account for dispute fees.

I wrote to the client again, telling him that I had always thought that he was a gentleman and he wasn't behavioring as such and informed him that he owed me 32 euros. No answer.

I called him to the company. On the phone I was told that he didn't work there any more. I said that I wanted to talk to a supervisor. I couldn't talk to anyone else than the secretary. She told me that he hadn't worked there for at least one year!!!
Until then, believing that everything was just a mistake, I hadn't checked everything. Then I did. His email was sent from the company account, the signature was with the name of the company, the translated document was related to the company...

I sent an email to the company. Although the address was the same than in their website, it failed and couldn't be delivered. Yesterday I sent a fax, with all the proofs, to the company.
No answer yet.

I think that if I receive no answer I will write something in the Blue Board, but I wonder... if the company says that the guy didn't work there on January, can I put the name of the company?

And what about PayPal in this story?
They wrote a very cordial message, but I really wonder whether they read my answer. They prefer not to have trouble with a bank than with a client, even if the client is absolutely right and can prove it.

It's really worrying.


[Edited at 2007-04-23 23:17]

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Wouter van Kampen
Local time: 22:54
Danish to Dutch
+ ...
Same trick played with credit card payments Apr 24, 2007

I remember service providers have been fooled with credit card payments in exactly the same way. I would definitely put a note on the blue board. Stick to the exact facts and sequence of events, no interpretation. There is a possibility that a former employee has been "forging" its way on both sides, i.e your translation might be intended to be used for scamming a third party.

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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:24
English to Tamil
+ ...
Yes Claudia, do post in the BB Apr 24, 2007

At least in that way the concerned company can come to know about the irregularities committed in its name.

And needless to say, it is very important to be very objective in wording the entry.


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 17:54
+ ...
File charges! Apr 24, 2007

Someone's playing games with you, either the company or the guy who placed the order - or both.

Obviously, nobody is taking you seriously - time to take this matter to court, I think. For 32 euros, you would have a hard time suing them (amount too low), BUT there is a second way:
This smells of FRAUD, which is a criminal offense. If you file charges for fraud against the company, the DA is going to have to investigate and they are going to have to explain themselves, forcing them out of their comfortable attitude of indifference.

If they can prove he wasn't working for them at the time, the charges will be against him.

I'm no lawyer, but I think this might help crack the affair.

Best of luck to you!


P.S.: Maybe you'll want to try a two-step approach. First tell them to pay what they owe or else. Then, if they still don't pay their dues, do it.

[Edited at 2007-04-24 09:26]

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May_L  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:54
English to Thai
How could the company let him use the company account? Apr 24, 2007

[...His email was sent from the company account, the signature was with the name of the company, the translated document was related to the company...]

Just wonder what the company will answer this question. The user name should be deleted as soon as the employee leaves the company.

May L.

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Claudia Krysztofiak  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:54
English to German
+ ...
You can send mail with any sender's name Apr 24, 2007

May_L wrote:

email was sent from the company account, the signature was with the name of the company, the translated document was related to the company...]

Just wonder what the company will answer this question. The user name should be deleted as soon as the employee leaves the company.

May L.


As is the case with lots of spam. if you know how, you can put almost any sender's name into an email. This would only prove something if the email also included some kind of unique secure signature by the company, as e.g. a pgp signature. Then they would be part responsible for the fraud for leaving this signature active.

[Bearbeitet am 2007-04-24 12:53]

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amj_services  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:54
English to Spanish
+ ...
Go for it! Apr 24, 2007


First of all, put a note on the Blue Board, detailing the exact facts and sequence of events.

I would later send a certified letter to the Company and get a signature of the person who receives it. Explain everything that happened, enclose photocopies and documents proving your point and demand the monetary compensation ($32) and a letter written by them explaining it was their mistake/fault (this you can later show to Paypal).

May be the Company forgot to cancel this guy's account when he left or may be they are also involved in this scam. They take 20 from you, 20 from some other person...and so forth...

You can also get advice from a lawyer. There are many places where you can get informed on how to proceed. Try some local websites/companies.

Last but not least, write to Paypal's Customer Satisfaction and complain about what happened, attach the evidence once more, say how disappointed you are with their behavior towards you, and that, from now on, you will strongly recommend against it. You could also post this in some other forums and saying how unsatisfied you are with Paypal. They must react to some of these...

Good luck and keep us posted!

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megane_wang  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:54
English to Spanish
+ ...
Fraud!! Apr 24, 2007

Hello --

As Benjamin (tectranslate) points out, this is fraud. Therefore, you should report it to the relevant authority.

BTW I don't know if in Chile you have the same thing, but in Spain I would suggest that you re-sent your last request for information by Burofax, which can be used as a proof in case of dispute. I would add this fraud report just lo let them know. If they have anything to say, they will probably do.

Anyway, you're warned that if the guy used the company's credit card without permission, he should get into trouble, but the company will still have no real obligation to pay.

Best luck!

Ruth @ MW

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megane_wang  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:54
English to Spanish
+ ...
Going back to PayPal... Apr 24, 2007

A comment regarding their role here.

Last year I was "on the other side" of the problem when someone got my card number and stole a list of small amounts. After I reported that to the police, my bank reimbursed everything without asking anything else. From my side of the problem, I can assure you thet I would have not listened to anyone who tried to claim for that money !!

As far as I know, the other victims of that fraud (the shops where that money was used) have an insurance for fraud cases, provided by the card issuer. I wonder whether PayPal has something like that.

Would PayPal attend you in a different way if you had a fraud report to your authorities at hand?

The problem is that I understand that the company should report that, assuming they are telling you the truth. In the end, it's their card!!

Ruth @ MW

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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:54
English to French
+ ...
Just a little note Apr 24, 2007

I will not detail what you can do about this - other posters gave you excellent solutions.

I just wanted to say that there is obviously fraud involved. In our business, this should not be tolerated and nobody will help us deal with such situations, so we have to deal with this ourselves. Please, everybody, do take all means to make such people pay and also display comments on them online to shut these people out of the translation circuit. As mentioned in the initial post, it could have been thousands of dollars. If it was your problem personally, how would you feel?

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