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Bidding for services - does it happen in other industries?
Thread poster: Telesforo Fernandez
Telesforo Fernandez
Local time: 23:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 5, 2001

Has anybody seen bidding taking place for services like those rendered by doctors, lawyers, engineers, artists , painters, etc ? Do the members have any viewpoint on this matter?

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Alison Schwitzgebel
France
Local time: 18:38
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Engineers certainly bid for large tenders.... Dec 5, 2001

and during my time in investment banking I also saw many lawyers bidding to work on large M&A projects (so-called beauty contests ). So yes, it does happen in those industries too.



Alison


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Elinor Thomas  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:38
English to Spanish
+ ...
Of course I did. Dec 5, 2001

Ask any physician who wants to enter a hospital, clinic, etc. when there is a public call.

Ask any engineer or architect for the size of their bids, when there is a call for a work.

Everybody bids for their services.



)


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Telesforo Fernandez
Local time: 23:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It is great Dec 5, 2001

If so, here is an offer :

There is a patient who is sick , he needs to be treated for heart trouble. Qualified doctors should quote their rates to a middle man - mind you, you will not able to see the face of the original pattient or the hospital.

Is there a bazaar to post this offer?



[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-05 07:22 ]


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Gilda Manara  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:38
German to Italian
+ ...
Jobs and bids Dec 5, 2001

It is a long time that this discussion is going around - jumping from one Forum to another.

Bids are a problem for our profession, this is clear. But it is wrong to make the translators responsible for its consequences. It is the agencies/outsourcers that should adopt other criteria for outsourcing their jobs, so in these forums we can go on speaking as long as we want - we won\'t reach anything useful.

As long as there is 1 doctor every 1,000 patients - no doctor will need to bid for his services. As long as there are 400 translators ready to bid for one job - why not doing it?

Times ago I lived in India and paid my doctor (who had made his studies in the UK) the equivalent of 3 pounds per visit - he overcharged me because I was European, but we were both very happy. I live now in the UK and for the same level of care ten times as much would not be sufficient. If I had the possibility of being cared for via Internet, I would prefer the doctor in India... and I have heard very few people complaining about too cheap shoes or t-shirts made in Taiwan, Hong Kong and so on. Economy has its laws, and globalization has its effects, our profession is being affected by the same problem that the manufacturers of goods have met time ago. But, I repeat, let us not make the translators responsible for this!



Gilda


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Hans-Henning Judek  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:38
German to English
+ ...
Terminate the public bidding Dec 5, 2001

Nothing against bidding. This is something we do anyway, even with direct clients - at least once. We have to state our rates as well as qualifications and the client/agency has to be happy with it, otherwise we don\'t get the job, but someone else, who has applied at the same time.



Therafter, when the relationship has been established, usually nobody asks anymore. The conditions are silently agreed upon. That does not alter the fact that the client still would have the choice to select someone else, he considers more qualified for the job, more competitive in price - and also we can be busy at a given time. Most of my clients/agencies have several translators of each language paris on file, they can choose from.



Problem starts if bidding is international AND open. I have stopped bidding under a certain limit and take part in open bids only if certain qualifications, I have (law, economics, automotive), seem to be of value, but I am mostly at the high end with my rates.



Like auctions, open bidding has a strong tendency of creating a \"bidding frenzy\" among us translators. If the bidding is closed, I guess, most of us tend to offer our services at rates we think we are worth - at least I do. The client still has the choice.



So, I think PROZ, an entity created by translators for translators (not agencies!), should abolish the open bidding system as soon as possible, as it has the tendency of attracting all the cheapsters on the planet. PROZ should not become the \"cheap jack\" (Billiger Jakob) of the translation business, which it will if this tendency continues.


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Telesforo Fernandez
Local time: 23:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
typing work ? Dec 6, 2001

Look at this posting below, now we are called to type and 10 people have already submitted their bids.

Haaaaaaaaaa........?????????



Book

xxxx>German

Bidders must live in: Germany

(Potential)

Copy typing of a book in xxxx. 206 pages with approximately 1500 characters per page. NO TRANSLATION REQUIRED.





[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-06 07:42 ]


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 12:38
German to English
+ ...
I agree with Hans Dec 6, 2001

Public bidding must go!!!

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PaLa
Germany
Local time: 18:38
German to English
Engineers and architects bid for large projects lasting months... Dec 6, 2001

...or even years, and the sums of money involved are immense. Most jobs on offer on the ProZ site are a couple of thousand words in length, and will keep a translator busy for a few days at most. The comparison with a beauty contest is more apt - but then you have to imagine the contestants (a) being expected to boast at some length about how beautiful they are, and (b)improving their chances of winning by demanding less prize money than their competitors.(\"A paper crown will do me fine, thank you...\")



I know there are various schools of economic thought, but the economic \"laws\" referred to by reymarktco are far from immutable. And Naomi Klein is not the first or the only person to complain about cheap T-shirts (or trainers)and thus to help - slowly - improve the lot of many thousands of people who had perhaps already resigned themselves to the \"necessity\" of selling their labour for a pittance.



The Internet is still in its infancy, and globalisation can work in more ways than one. The going rate for translations in the USA is apparently 10 cents a word (thankyou to Abacus Trans for communicating this info in another forum)- so why should ProZ be offering opportunistic agencies the chance to exploit the needy by pushing the rates down? (The recent German-English medical translation offered on this site for four cents a word attracted at least 13 applicants. Unlucky for some, if not for all.)



So I agree with Hans-Henning Judek and AbacusTrans - and if (for some reason)public bidding has to stay, then there should at least be a statutory minimum rate which cannot be undercut, regardless of the translator\'s provenance.


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Lesley Clayton
France
Local time: 18:38
French to English
+ ...
Yes, public bidding has to go. Dec 6, 2001

I agree with both Hans and Werner that public bidding has to go, but I\'ve no objection whatsoever against private bidding.



I\'ve only bid publicly once and I won\'t do it again because my sample translation was copied by another bidder.





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Telesforo Fernandez
Local time: 23:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
what happens to the private bid? Dec 17, 2001

Lesley,

Did you come to know as to what happened to your private bid?

Or for that matter,you do not even know for whom you are bidding.

And are you sure, that your bid is forwarded?



One has to know for certain whether one\'s bid has reached the job poster or not.



Henry, for example, may think that translators are not supposed to know it. He may say, I am forwarding your bids- have faith on me.



Often he gives a reasoning saying that the information belongs to the owner of the information. So, we are perhaps, fools to waste our time and energy. Will Henry speak up?


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 12:38
SITE FOUNDER
most site functions happen automatically Dec 17, 2001

Quote:


One has to know for certain whether one\'s bid has reached the job poster or not.



Henry, for example, may think that translators are not supposed to know it. He may say, I am forwarding your bids- have faith on me.





The role of ProZ.com staff is maintaining the site and its software. Site staff members do not get involved in jobs. No one actually \'forwards\' jobs or bids; barring technical difficulties, this happens automatically.

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Telesforo Fernandez
Local time: 23:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
automatically? Dec 17, 2001

read what one of your staff wrote :

\"The job was posted on ProZ, assigned to a ProZ member at a decent rate and properly closed.\"

How does he know that it was closed at a decent rate and that it was assigned to a proz member? Besides how does he know that it was properly closed or improperly closed?



So, perhaps, the cat is out of the bag.



So, all replies, may probably come automatically from proz circuit breaker.



[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-17 08:55 ]

[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-17 14:35 ]


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 12:38
SITE FOUNDER
no cat, no bag Dec 17, 2001

Quote:


On 2001-12-17 08:45, telef wrote:

read what one of your staff wrote :

\"The job was posted on ProZ, assigned to a ProZ member at a decent rate and properly closed.\"

How does he know that it was closed at a decent rate and that it was assigned to a proz member? Besides how does he know that it was properly closed or improperly closed?



So, perhaps, the cat is out of the bag.





I don\'t follow your insinuation, but I can tell you there is no cat, no bag. This site is an open book.

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