| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Dear Henry, you\'r redefining market laws -and you\'re all on your own in this one! Thread poster: Carole Muller
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Carole Muller
Denmark
Local time: 13:51
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
I guess the debate now has reached such length either you\'re in or you are out:
Do you want to work for rates which are LOWER than what people on welfare get in Europe?
I don\'t. I suggested some stuff in other threads, many days ago. I don\'t think accreditation works. I personally get higher rates per word than accredited translators. But I am looking for partnerships (such as I though proz.com was) to ptomote myself while I am busy translating. It is... See more I guess the debate now has reached such length either you\'re in or you are out:
Do you want to work for rates which are LOWER than what people on welfare get in Europe?
I don\'t. I suggested some stuff in other threads, many days ago. I don\'t think accreditation works. I personally get higher rates per word than accredited translators. But I am looking for partnerships (such as I though proz.com was) to ptomote myself while I am busy translating. It is a mistake not to use time on promoting oneself and I did that mistake while finishing a huge project.
I don\'t think proz.com works for me, (but I wanted to try, after all I did not know ehen I started) but it may work for you if you are happy with 2 cts/word for correcting or reviewing articles and with 5 or 10 cts/word for highly complex translations.
My suggestions were:
1. to redesign the auction mechanism (can be done in MANY different ways, current way is designed to drive prices down, not to promote quality)
2.to redefine the proz client group: software producers reselling here? Agencies looking for rush job translators? Translators with credentials that cannot be checked? Translators with credentials that can be checked? Both kind of translators? a mix of everything?
In French you say that you cannot run behind and chase tow hares at the same time, same thing here.
3.Other suggestions, but who cares on proz.com, so why bother?
Many agree who have written to me personally, also agencies. Henry does not, Mats does not (and Mats feels attacked, but I don\'t know why, I am looking for better rates for Mats, and you, and I, but it must be offensive to henry and to Mats).
Now, this thing has become absurd, so I\'ll let you intelligent guys sort it out... You can always mail me if you are interested in other business models for promoting translations.
I have seen what does not work and now I am wiser -thanks to Henry- to try and devise what works.
Why should I post my ideas for free here when it is bothering those who read it and the rest is bored? Hey, Merry Christmas, it\'s a time of peace...
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| | | | ttagir 
Local time: 14:51
Member (2002)
English to Russian
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| Let us stop and think, e.g., about the New Year :-) | Dec 16, 2001 |
Sorry, I am too old on this site and should state the typical picture: suppose that somebody constructed something; then somebody else arrives and starts to criticize either the whole construction, or color of doors, or size and quantity of windows... I think almost all who were with Henry from early proz days are still (and certainly will be) very proud of the knowledge that were and are being engaged in creation of the most interesting and most ample \"translator world\".
... See more Sorry, I am too old on this site and should state the typical picture: suppose that somebody constructed something; then somebody else arrives and starts to criticize either the whole construction, or color of doors, or size and quantity of windows... I think almost all who were with Henry from early proz days are still (and certainly will be) very proud of the knowledge that were and are being engaged in creation of the most interesting and most ample \"translator world\".
It will be my 3rd New Year with ProZ. Somebody will celebrate 2nd New Year as a ProZ member. Somebody else will do it for the fist time. I hope we all should congratulate each other with the coming event. And thank Henry. Should we all hope that 2001 will turn to be the worst year of the new millenium ))?
ProZ.com... It is very democratic, since perhaps only the most idle novice refuses to give to moderators some sincere kicks, digs, and pokes (this usually occurs by 30th to 40th day of presence on the site . ProZ is really profitable since ... it grows. It has some difficulties since ... it continues to grow. ProZ MUST BE and (I see IS) profitable for proz (professionals).
I have some ideas which could help proz to pass over some, say qualitative transition points. I am sure Henry has no time to reply to everybody, even every moderator. Should we find some minutes in 2002 to exchange ideas? Pity, it seems like we all have too short time which were free to sit down and think.
Nevertheless, anything MUST have some basic points or a foundation. Logically, the foundation and basement of the whole proz world was Henry, is Henry, and (I do believe and hope) will be Henry. It is as 2*2 = 4)). Or as 3*3=9. Period.
Nobody limits anyone\'s freedom to join the site and to leave it. We all are absolutely different but almost same as concerns our freedom. We all are different but we should not be opposite.
I am very sorry of having no possibility to join properly InstantJobs - the unique attempt was simply ceased by problems with the Net (I got ProZ\' invitation to work via e-mail ... after completion of the job ). I saw errors of other partners of that finished game, but ... I did not find ANY way to delete these errors. A pessimistic situation, believe me.
However, I hope that some great things can be done in new ways indeed invented by Henry and by HIS (or, say 50% of him and 50% of all other members site. Example: 4 p.m. one Sunday afternoon (2-3 months ago) I placed my bid to a ProZ job offer. 10 minutes later I was found via phone by the agency posted the job. I got their source 7 p.m. (too poor fax; very important, critical, and specific text; French into English, some 7000 words in 15 A4 pages with a dark-grey and huge word PROJET covering some 20% of every page area. I was busy and started to work with the order only the midnight between Sunday and Monday. I had the clear source file Monday 7 a.m. and completely closed their order before 2 p.m. (same Monday).
I never thought this could be possible; but it turned to be REAL via ProZ. I am sure that \"at ProZ\'\" (as almost in any other place) everyone can invent her/his own ways to \"increase profits\". But, as usual and as ever, the result depends mainly on ... professional skills of the \"producer\".
So, please permit me to recall that we have some 15 days to finish our 2001. Let us hope to solve all problems. TOGETHER!
Yours, Tagir. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Maya Jurt
Switzerland
Local time: 13:51
French to German
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| The first positive reply | Dec 16, 2001 |
Tagir, this is just what was needed. Thanks a million.
Let\'s stop and think, and come up with positive remarks and proposals on Carol\'s useful but maybe too torrential suggestions.I am sure we all can contribute.
Grand merci.
Maya
| | | | John Kinory (X)
Local time: 12:51
English to Hebrew
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| Henry - can you moderate such disgraceful language, please? | Dec 16, 2001 |
Marcus: referring to Carole as \'girl\' marks you out as a caveman. In 2001 we have men and women, not \'girls\'.
Mats: your posting about leaving and starting up something with Werner is highly offensive. Werner was not part of this thread. If you have a bone to pick with him, kindly don\'t do it on-site. If you, as a moderator, have such poor grasp of netiquette, you should not BE a moderator.
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Where the bee sucks honey, the spider sucks poison.
| | | | Telesforo Fernandez (X)
Local time: 17:21
English to Spanish
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| Some food for thought | Dec 16, 2001 |
hello Joahnna,
Thse are not the bees that sting and spiders that suck blood, but they are predators, predators.... if you can reflect on this. Carole has struck the right chord.
Some years ago this is what happened to one of the organizations :
Some blue – eyed boys, in their nickers,( with queen - bees around them) possibly thoght that they could feed us some marketing half -truths and lead us to the blind alley and destroy what is little is left of t... See more hello Joahnna,
Thse are not the bees that sting and spiders that suck blood, but they are predators, predators.... if you can reflect on this. Carole has struck the right chord.
Some years ago this is what happened to one of the organizations :
Some blue – eyed boys, in their nickers,( with queen - bees around them) possibly thoght that they could feed us some marketing half -truths and lead us to the blind alley and destroy what is little is left of the profession, and when the things got hot for them,they pretented to offer an olive branch.
[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-16 09:03 ] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | bees and wha? | Dec 16, 2001 |
Quote:
On 2001-12-16 05:59, johanna wrote:
Where the bee sucks honey, the spider sucks poison.
Hey Johanna,
Ahh...hmmm...call me \'tupid but you lost me there...I seem to have misplaced my compass...
Were you trying to be transcendental or I\'m just not good at entomology?
Marcus
| | | | | Anthropod proverbs | Dec 16, 2001 |
Quote:
On 2001-12-16 11:02, marcushm wrote:
Quote:
On 2001-12-16 05:59, johanna wrote:
Where the bee sucks honey, the spider sucks poison.
Were you trying to be transcendental or I\'m just not good at entomology?
Try these Arthropod proverbs:
... See more Quote:
On 2001-12-16 11:02, marcushm wrote:
Quote:
On 2001-12-16 05:59, johanna wrote:
Where the bee sucks honey, the spider sucks poison.
Were you trying to be transcendental or I\'m just not good at entomology?
Try these Arthropod proverbs:
http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/proverbs.htm ▲ Collapse
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Telesforo Fernandez (X)
Local time: 17:21
English to Spanish
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| Henry, you are good at all things | Dec 16, 2001 |
You are good at all things. I hope you will restrain these honey - bees. Ceaser\'s wife should not only be honest, but also appear to be honest. All these bees around.!!!!!
[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-16 15:52 ]
| | | | | Carole, here's some advice for you | Dec 16, 2001 |
Hi Carole,
If instead of writing economics compendia on the ProZ forums this week you had used 1/3 of your time searching actively for jobs and agencies willing to pay your fees you would probably have landed on at least one decent opportunity.
Antagonising Henry and Proz is not going to do your bank account any good. If you have golden credentials let the people that can actually give you jobs know about that. Don\'t waste your breath and tire everyone ... See more Hi Carole,
If instead of writing economics compendia on the ProZ forums this week you had used 1/3 of your time searching actively for jobs and agencies willing to pay your fees you would probably have landed on at least one decent opportunity.
Antagonising Henry and Proz is not going to do your bank account any good. If you have golden credentials let the people that can actually give you jobs know about that. Don\'t waste your breath and tire everyone out with these sermons. Go for it, the free market way.
Um abraço,
ME
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| | | | | Sense of humour & common sense | Dec 16, 2001 |
Thanks Henry and Marcus for your sense of humour.
And thanks Maria Eugenia for your refreshing common sense. Well done, garotinha!
Best regards to everybody,
Patricia
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| | | | Carole Muller
Denmark
Local time: 13:51
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | You're so right Maria | Dec 16, 2001 |
... you\'re so right Maria and this is exactly what I am thinking now, but not one week ago. One week ago, I thought WE CAN ALL WORK TOGETHER TO IMPROVE OUR TERMS, because I see things which you don\'t, but what you see which I don\'t is that solidarity on proz is regarded as an offensive and stupid behaviour (hahaha what a joke!).
Not all agree with you Maria ans I found the right people to make up a team of professionals covering my language pairs and other languages than ... See more ... you\'re so right Maria and this is exactly what I am thinking now, but not one week ago. One week ago, I thought WE CAN ALL WORK TOGETHER TO IMPROVE OUR TERMS, because I see things which you don\'t, but what you see which I don\'t is that solidarity on proz is regarded as an offensive and stupid behaviour (hahaha what a joke!).
Not all agree with you Maria ans I found the right people to make up a team of professionals covering my language pairs and other languages than mine.
And while you are barking at the wrong tree, I d\' like to thank Henry for having the kindness to send me a personal letter of apologies.
Now Maria, I see you do not like that I answer a person asking whether we are in economic recession or not. Posting what I posted takes me 5 mintes time to write because its my profession, so donøt worry for me, plenty up my sleev and this is not what was preventing me from promoting my business.
Instead I was involved in a huge project for 2 years. Emerging to the surface I find proz and a problem of low rates, which I never heard of (I did not have it until November 15th where I joined the site).
But sure, I exit the attempt to improve things, why Maria should you get better rates for your work, and why the hell should I help a biting dog? Have fun !
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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 07:51
German to English
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Quote:
On 2001-12-16 01:57, Yoni wrote:
Mats: your posting about leaving and starting up something with Werner is highly offensive. Werner was not part of this thread. If you have a bone to pick with him, kindly don\'t do it on-site. If you, as a moderator, have such poor grasp of netiquette, you should not BE a moderator....
... and never should have been in the first place! My only hope is t... See more Quote:
On 2001-12-16 01:57, Yoni wrote:
Mats: your posting about leaving and starting up something with Werner is highly offensive. Werner was not part of this thread. If you have a bone to pick with him, kindly don\'t do it on-site. If you, as a moderator, have such poor grasp of netiquette, you should not BE a moderator....
... and never should have been in the first place! My only hope is that Henry will finally do something about these acts of abuse committed by his own staff! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Dear Henry, you\'r redefining market laws -and you\'re all on your own in this one! | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
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