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Low rates for freelancer
Thread poster: Gina Ferlisi

Gina Ferlisi
Italy
Local time: 15:22
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
Oct 9, 2007

After just take a glance to the job offers, i was amazed at the low rates that english agencies are now offering, its incredibile 0.02 per word, within a couple of months we will be asked to work for free.

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Hani Hassaan  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 15:22
Member (2007)
English to Arabic
+ ...
DO NOT MAKE YOUR SELF LOW EVEN THE OTHERS ARE Oct 9, 2007

Hi Gina,
the most important advice for every professional translator is (DO NOT MAKE YOUR SELF LOW EVEN THE OTHERS ARE), I agree with you some of translators are main reason in this problem because they accept to take the low rates or quote a low rates themselves, we really would like from Proz to define minimum rate for each languages pair so we remove pre-set low rates.


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Vadim Poguliaev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 16:22
English to Russian
big problem Oct 9, 2007

I think well exposed article about rates and pricing could be a solution. One of those every proz new user can read and make a decision on their own rates. A newcomers must understand, that by setting low rates they:

Work for a peanut
Undermine their community


[Edited at 2007-10-09 08:27]


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Noni Gilbert
Spain
Local time: 15:22
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Pay peanuts, get monkeys Oct 9, 2007

It would be good if this were always true, but if people are willing to work for peanuts and turn in quality work, then we're shot.

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Letizia Pipero  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:22
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
Not an english agency.... Oct 9, 2007

... but it seems an italian school of languages.

They don't look very professional anyway because their website is suspended and as outsourcers on their proz page they propose tarifs of 0,04 euro per word/ 18 euro per hour.

Nobody seems bid for now and I'm sure that if during the day we will see some offer appear many of them will be of professionals stating their real tarifs.

I don't think we have to worry to much about their tarifs but a bit more about their lack of knowledge of the reality of translation market....and I'm afraid that even in Jesi you cannot make it with such little money.

greetings from a grey Paris

Letizia

[Modificato alle 2007-10-09 08:40]

[Modificato alle 2007-10-09 08:45]


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Claudia Krysztofiak  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:22
English to German
+ ...
Don't worry! Oct 9, 2007

Someone posted a similar assumption last year and it still did not happen, the working for free, I mean.



Just stay away from such agencies. There may be people in certain countries who can make a living from that, so leave it to them. There are still enough agencies and customers who pay more, but they do not offer their jobs on Proz.com and/or they mostly do not include prices in their job offers.


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Gina Ferlisi
Italy
Local time: 15:22
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Infact i checked their profile after opening the forum and i agree with you, Oct 9, 2007

Italian standard rates are not below €0.04 by word..at least i hope they will find translators who do not use translation machines..:) quality costs
Letizia Pipero wrote:

... but it seems an italian school of languages.

They don't look very professional anyway because their website is suspended and as outsourcers on their proz page they propose tarifs of 0,04 euro per word/ 18 euro per hour.

Nobody seems bid for now and I'm sure that if during the day we will see some offer appear many of them will be of professionals stating their real tarifs.

I don't think we have to worry to much about their tarifs but a bit more about their lack of knowledge of the reality of translation market....and I'm afraid that even in Jesi you cannot make it with such little money.

greetings from a grey Paris

Letizia

[Modificato alle 2007-10-09 08:40]

[Modificato alle 2007-10-09 08:45]


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Gina Ferlisi
Italy
Local time: 15:22
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks for your advise Oct 9, 2007

Claudia Krysztofiak wrote:

Someone posted a similar assumption last year and it still did not happen, the working for free, I mean.



Just stay away from such agencies. There may be people in certain countries who can make a living from that, so leave it to them. There are still enough agencies and customers who pay more, but they do not offer their jobs on Proz.com and/or they mostly do not include prices in their job offers.


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Gina Ferlisi
Italy
Local time: 15:22
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
good idea Oct 9, 2007

It would be a good idea to have a minimum rate defined for new translators,however i have decided to put my rates a little higher and i have found that with well know agencies its a pleasure to work with, better to have big agencies than small private outsourcers (I speak for experience)
regards from FlorenceHani


Hassaan wrote:

Hi Gina,
the most important advice for every professional translator is (DO NOT MAKE YOUR SELF LOW EVEN THE OTHERS ARE), I agree with you some of translators are main reason in this problem because they accept to take the low rates or quote a low rates themselves, we really would like from Proz to define minimum rate for each languages pair so we remove pre-set low rates.


[Modificato alle 2007-10-09 10:08]


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 16:22
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
The point has been beaten to death Oct 9, 2007

Hi Gina,

Your post must be, roughly, #10,000 on this topic. The point has been beaten to death, so I doubt you will get a lot of thoughtful feedback.

Regards


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James Calder  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:22
Spanish to English
+ ...
Still a point worth making Oct 9, 2007

It doesn't matter how many times it's been brought up, Mikhail, it's still a point worth making. New people join this site all the time, and if nothing else posts like this are a reminder that they should never undersell themselves.

What's more, if the site isn't going to police abusive rates, then who else is going to do it but us service providers?

When agencies start paying decent rates then we can stop complaining. Till then, keep banging that saucepan.


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:22
German to English
+ ...
Point worth making? Oct 9, 2007

I beg to differ, James.

What's significant isn't that the point has already been made 10,000 times, despite this being the case as Mikhail says. It's the fact that it has to be made at all.

One customer has said that he or she is only willing to pay a silly price for a service. So what? Why does this have to cause so much anguish to so many people?

If you're running a business properly, you should have a realistic idea of the demand for your services and the prices that can be charged. With that information, you can dismiss incidents like this as wishful thinking on the part of isolated individuals, or as a phenomenon in a market segment other than your own. On the other hand, if you decide that it does affect you, it's time to change your own business model or strategy.

I regularly find business cards on my car's windshield from used-car "dealers" wishing to buy it. If I call them, I find that they are prepared to pay between a third and half of what I know to be a realistic market price. These dealers' business model, if it can be called that, is based on their finding sufficient numbers of people who are keen to sell their cars quickly but have little idea of their actual value. The practice is widespread here and has even been criticized in the German media - it makes for a good report - but there's no point getting upset about it. Nor does it follow that if I drop in on my local Mercedes dealer and offer him €7,000 for a new Benz, he'll be on the phone to his fellow dealers to complain about the way the market is going and how "abusive" punters are becoming.

If you want to get a good price for your car, house or anything else for that matter, you have to begin by deciding what it is worth, and you don't base that decision on one incident involving a cowboy outfit. Even ordinary consumers know that, and business people who haven't figured it out don't really deserve to be in business.

Marc


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 16:22
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Well said, Marc Oct 9, 2007

Let me just mention here one simple thing. ProZ.com tries to be many different things for many different people, and at least two segments of customers are not happy with the things being done for the other segment(s). Hence these posts, and most of them from newcomers. It just takes a while to see what in the site is targeted at you and what isn't...

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Gina Ferlisi
Italy
Local time: 15:22
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
silly prices Oct 9, 2007

This causes anguish because we are highly qualified translators who offer a serious service to our clients , its not a question of a silly price , are our standard rates now becoming silly prices too?..i wrote this forum because i was shocked that a person who charges 0.4 for her services offers an under price for her jobs,0.02 it is not even proofreading rate, therefore i agree with james that we must insist on taking up this topic all the times it is not a question of being upset .


Marc P wrote:

I beg to differ, James.

What's significant isn't that the point has already been made 10,000 times, despite this being the case as Mikhail says. It's the fact that it has to be made at all.

One customer has said that he or she is only willing to pay a silly price for a service. So what? Why does this have to cause so much anguish to so many people?

If you're running a business properly, you should have a realistic idea of the demand for your services and the prices that can be charged. With that information, you can dismiss incidents like this as wishful thinking on the part of isolated individuals, or as a phenomenon in a market segment other than your own. On the other hand, if you decide that it does affect you, it's time to change your own business model or strategy.

I regularly find business cards on my car's windshield from used-car "dealers" wishing to buy it. If I call them, I find that they are prepared to pay between a third and half of what I know to be a realistic market price. These dealers' business model, if it can be called that, is based on their finding sufficient numbers of people who are keen to sell their cars quickly but have little idea of their actual value. The practice is widespread here and has even been criticized in the German media - it makes for a good report - but there's no point getting upset about it. Nor does it follow that if I drop in on my local Mercedes dealer and offer him €7,000 for a new Benz, he'll be on the phone to his fellow dealers to complain about the way the market is going and how "abusive" punters are becoming.

If you want to get a good price for your car, house or anything else for that matter, you have to begin by deciding what it is worth, and you don't base that decision on one incident involving a cowboy outfit. Even ordinary consumers know that, and business people who haven't figured it out don't really deserve to be in business.

Marc


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 15:22
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
At least they're English Oct 9, 2007

gina ferlisi wrote:
After just take a glance to the job offers, I was amazed at the low rates that English agencies are now offering...


At least they're English, so 0.02 translates to $0.04... which is still on the low side, I admit.


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