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Do you charge more for jobs to be done with TagEditor?
Thread poster: MariusV

MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 15:07
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
Jan 7, 2008

First of all, sorry if I posted this topic here - it is related with all 3 issues - money matters, translation practice, and Trados

Anyway, wanted to ask a question - do you usually charge more for a translation job required to be done with Trados TagEditor? What I have noticed long ago - the same volume of source words takes much more time to complete using TagEditor (as there are all those TagEditor "codes" and other things) compared to the "usual jobs" do be done simply using MS Word or Trados Workbench ?


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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 20:07
Partial member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
Time saving by using Tageditor Jan 7, 2008

>Anyway, wanted to ask a question - do you usually charge more for a translation job required to be done with Trados TagEditor? What I have noticed long ago - the same volume of source words takes much more time to complete using TagEditor (as there are all those TagEditor "codes" and other things) compared to the "usual jobs" do be done simply using MS Word or Trados Workbench ?

No, I do not think to charge more.
I can use Tageditor without more time to consume. If you are familiar with many functions of Tageditor, you can save time like using MS Word: Autotext, Copy & paste, Editing on MS Word before paste back to Tageditor, Termbase, TM concordance.
The larger project, the more time I can save.

Regards,
Soonthon L.


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 16:07
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
I charge more ... Jan 7, 2008

In general I charge an extra 0.02 or 0.03 (Eur) for TagEditor projects. Working with TagEditor is time-consuming, and in my opinion it is not a translator-friendly program.

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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 15:07
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
...and what is your "TagEditor" extra time estimation? Jan 7, 2008

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

In general I charge an extra 0.02 or 0.03 (Eur) for TagEditor projects. Working with TagEditor is time-consuming, and in my opinion it is not a translator-friendly program.


Dear Selcuk,

Well, I understand that grammar, structures, and other "peculiarities" of our languages (Turkish and Lithuanian) can be a lot different. But, anyway, what is your "extra time estimation" for work with TagEditor? My "estimation" is about "one-third" extra - without TagEditor I isually do around 3000 words per day, and with TagEditor 2000 words at the best...


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 16:07
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
horizontal vs vertical layout Jan 7, 2008

MariusV wrote:

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

In general I charge an extra 0.02 or 0.03 (Eur) for TagEditor projects. Working with TagEditor is time-consuming, and in my opinion it is not a translator-friendly program.


Dear Selcuk,

Well, I understand that grammar, structures, and other "peculiarities" of our languages (Turkish and Lithuanian) can be a lot different. But, anyway, what is your "extra time estimation" for work with TagEditor? My "estimation" is about "one-third" extra - without TagEditor I isually do around 3000 words per day, and with TagEditor 2000 words at the best...



I charge more because working with TagEditor takes more time when compared with Deja Vu or even SDLX. It is a matter of choice after all, but in my experience my daily output is almost fifty percent higher with vertical layout programs.

A topic worth reading is here http://www.proz.com/topic/83896


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Margreet Logmans  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:07
English to Dutch
+ ...
No difference Jan 7, 2008

I work with Trados Workbench + MS Word, Trados TagEditor, and Transit, whatever the customer wants for the project at hand. My productivity is the same with all three of them. So no, I do not charge extra.

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Oleg Rudavin  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 15:07
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
Rates in the general arrangement Jan 7, 2008

There may be two types of rate arrangements used with clients. One is a fixed rate no matter what the source/complexity/area is; the other is a flexible system when rates are identified on per case basis.

Both are viable; with the first type, the basic rate is somewhat higher. Of course there may be jobs under the first system that should be priced higher - just as easy ones that could have easily be charged less. With the second system, a surcharge is applied for using CAT tools, unfriendly source formats, DTP and whatever... What extra percentage one charges for these is up to every one of us to decide.

Cheers,
Oleg


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 14:07
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
Work faster with Tageditor Jan 7, 2008

Hi Marius,

on the contrary, I'd be willing to charge more for any heavily formatted text I have to translate in MSWord as per client's instruction, as whatever precaution I take it is never as fast as translating it in TagEditor.

Actually, you don't need to do anything with those TE codes, except you mean the embedded HTML code, but this is something you have to check / take care of in MSWord, too.

Giuliana


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megane_wang  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:07
English to Spanish
+ ...
Why? Jan 7, 2008

Hi Marius,

I only can say that. In fact, I don't spend more time working with it. I had to learn how to use it and get some practice, but that's all.

I also work with Trados Workbench + Word, and the results are quite much the same, as Margreet also said above.

Best,

Ruth


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KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:07
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TagEditor jobs in Déjà Vu Jan 7, 2008

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
I charge more because working with TagEditor takes more time when compared with Deja Vu or even SDLX. It is a matter of choice after all, but in my experience my daily output is almost fifty percent higher with vertical layout programs.
A topic worth reading is here http://www.proz.com/topic/83896


Fascinating discussion of layouts, Selcuk. Thanks for calling it to our attention. If you work that much slower in TagEditor than you do in Déjà Vu, why not just do your TagEditor jobs in Déjà Vu? Works like a charm, and I agree that it saves time... lots of people do it this way.

Oh yes... as far as the main topic is concerned, no I wouldn't charge extra for TE, not even if I didn't take the "easy way" out and do the work in DV. There are simply too many cases where TE is much more stable than using the word macros, and for Excel or PPT jobs, it's actually quite nice. I even *prefer* to do many PPT jobs in TagEditor as opposed to DV because I can delete superfluous tags created by bad formatting and get more useful TM content.

[Edited at 2008-01-07 14:37]


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 15:07
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
interesting... Jan 7, 2008

Very interesting comments and very interesting opinions. Somehow I expected that the majority will tell that TagEditor consumes much more time.

Well, I do not say I am very experienced in TagEditor (maybe there are many things to learn to make it more efficient). But I have one more "theory" - I do not know can it simply be


I do not know Soonthon's target language (Thai), nor Megane's target language (Chinese), but knowing a little bit of Dutch (Margreet's target language) and some Russian (Oleg's) language, then add my main source language (English) and target language (Lithuanian) and the fact that actually all posters translate from English into their native tongues - there can be quite an interesting discovery. There are such things like "structural features" of languages, more specifically - I have in mind "synthetic" (a high morpheme-word ratio languages with a high inflection rate) and "analytic" languages. And those folks who are "in favor" for TagEditor are like representatives of the analytic languages. Say, for EN-NL translation - the langs have a similar (set) sentence structure, the grammatical categories are not expressed by endings (adjective, noun ending concordance, etc.). And for EN-LT (and very similarly for EN-RU) with a more "free" sentence structure (but with numerous rules) and grammatical categories expressed by endings (in LT - 7 grammatical cases) where all the story of time consumption (at least in my case) begins with fuzzy matches (for EN-LT). Say, for EN-NL you translated a sentence of 12 words and only 1 or 2 words differ in the next sentence (a close fuzzy match), so one (as I imagines) just types that "other" word in the target and that is it (like if the previous source contained "John" and the changed source contains "Mary", or "is" into "was", or „above“ into „below“, you can simply go like by "Find-Replace" without the need to change the endings of other words in the sentence, without the need to change the word order in most cases), and maybe because of that TagEditor is really more convenient? And in Lithuanian all the "story begins" when even one word is changed in comparison to a previous sentence, the whole sentence structure (endings, sentence order, etc.) goes upside down or changes a lot. Add those TagEditor codes that have to be places correspondingly (a code in the beginning of the sentence in source has to be removed to the middle of the target sentence, let alone sentences with many codes), and one feels like an engineer dismantling the whole sentence, sorting the components of it, and then mounting it again, and it is enough just to change or lose one part of the whole "structure", and you get a problem of mounting it back (or, at least, you have to spend a lot of time thinking how to make the parts fit again

What do you think? It is not so easy to explain what I mean, but I hope you got the idea?




[Edited at 2008-01-07 14:45]


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 16:07
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
I do it Jan 7, 2008

Kevin Lossner wrote:

Fascinating discussion of layouts, Selcuk. Thanks for calling it to our attention. If you work that much slower in TagEditor than you do in Déjà Vu, why not just do your TagEditor jobs in Déjà Vu? Works like a charm, and I agree that it saves time... lots of people do it this way.


I do all my work with DV. One can easily translate Trados, TagEditor, SDLX or Star projects with DV.


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 15:07
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
so better DejaVu instead of TagEditor? Jan 7, 2008

As far as I understand, I can use DejaVu for projects to be done with TagEditor ?


[Edited at 2008-01-07 14:53]


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Steven Capsuto  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:07
Spanish to English
+ ...
More about the target format than the tool Jan 7, 2008

TagEditor doesn't slow me down in any way. However, if the document is a PowerPoint presentation I may need extra time at the end to fix some of the formatting after exporting it to PowerPoint.

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Margreet Logmans  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:07
English to Dutch
+ ...
Interesting theory Jan 7, 2008

I think you have a point, Marius, but only in general.
After all, if your theory is correct, the entire use of CAT-tools would be less effective in the 'synthetic' languages.

I think TE is a good tool, especially for HTML and other tagged text. In my view, experience and confidence are the biggest factors here, as well as being somewhat of a 'techie' - the more you like to work with computers, the more you probably like to experiment and the steeper your learning curve.

My 2 cents....


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