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Rates in Logoport
Thread poster: Carole Hognestad
Carole Hognestad
Local time: 00:56
Norwegian to English
Jan 27, 2008

I have been asked by an agency that I get a lot of work from to translate an annual report for a company. I have translated this end client's annual reports for the past few years, as well as other material, and apparently they always ask for me.

The job is to be carried out in Logoport but I do not feel that the rates the agency is offering me for the different percentages of matches reflects the man-hours I put into the job. For example, the last job I did for this agency was in excess of 50,000 words and was in Logoport. When I looked at the time I spent on this job and what I was actually paid for it, it was below the normal rate that I earn on an hourly basis. As I explained to the agency, the amount by which working in Logoport reduces the cost (for them) is not proportional to the amount of time that I save (which is very little) by using it, which effectively means a drop in income for me. I generally find that working in Logoport takes the same time or longer overall than working in Word, given the extra check at the end with the original Word document, the more complicated formatting, and the fact that Logoport sometimes takes longer to respond to my commands than I take to enter the text myself. I therefore don't agree with the agency's weighted pricing.

My rates with the agency for Logoport are as follows:

Repititions 10% (of full word price)
100 10%
95-99 25%
85-94 50%
75-84 50%
50-74 100%
No match 100%

Would anyone be willing to tell me their Logoport rates in order to give me some idea of whether I have a case with the agency, and does anyone agree with me?

[Edited at 2008-01-27 12:44]


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Jan Willem van Dormolen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:56
English to Dutch
+ ...
Some considerations Jan 27, 2008

Other colleagues will tell you that you shouldn't give discounts for using Logoport or any other TM at all. However, I am not of that school.

If Logoport (or any other TM) doesn't save you time, then I wonder whether you should be using it at all. Are there very little repetitions in your job? A TMemory software only serves its purpose when there is something to memorize.

If the job does have (preferably lots) of repetition, then the rates you give are not uncommon and certainly not unreasonable.

If Logoport reacts slowly, then there is probably an issue with the TM or the TM server. I've had that happening several times, and it always came down to a TM that was somehow damaged. Or your computer needs an upgrade, or your internet connection (you do have broadband, do you?). If everything's OK, Logoport should not be slower than any other TM. I work with several, and I don't notice much difference (unless there's something wrong, as I said above).

Good luck,
Jan Willem


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kimjasper  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 00:56
Member (2006)
English to Danish
+ ...
I add a surcharge for using online tools Jan 27, 2008

Hi Carole,

I have similar experience. I tell my customer that I understand the overall benefits they gain from using online or semi online tools but that the translation work in particular takes longer time. I charge at least 20 % extra for using online or semi online tools (i.e. tools where interaction with a host is required constantly or at intervals). After a period of time I review the actual time spent and may revise the surcharge.

With regards to your rates I usually charge 100 % for 84 % matches or less.

Best regards
Kim


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Carole Hognestad
Local time: 00:56
Norwegian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Nice one Jan 27, 2008

Hi Kim

Thanks for your reply. That sounds like exactly the sort of thing I had in mind but I wasn't sure if the client would agree that this is reasonable. I think I have a good case for increasing my rates with Logoport, and if I can make comparisons with other translators it may help my case.

Many thanks.


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Carole Hognestad
Local time: 00:56
Norwegian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Jan 27, 2008

Hi Jan Willem and thank you for your response. Working in Logoport has always slowed me down for the following reasons:

1) There is usually about a 4 or 5 second delay between my command and pretranslated text appearing. While this does not seem much, if you multiply these 4 or 5 seconds by however many pretranslated segments appear (which in a job exceeding 50,000 words will be thousands), it adds up to a lot of time just sitting waiting.

2) The text that appears in non-exact matches takes me longer to correct than if I had entered the text from scratch, added to which I am sometimes paid as little as 25% for these segments. So not only am I taking longer to translate these segments than I would normally, I am also being paid less.

3) The client asks that I do a final comparison between the Logoport translation and the original source document, ensuring that no segments have been missed and that all formatting is the same.

This may all seem like nit picking but the client is always very quick off the mark when there is profit to be made on their side in any shape or form, and I feel I am working hard for an unfair return with this client.


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Jan Willem van Dormolen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:56
English to Dutch
+ ...
Remarks Jan 27, 2008


Hi Jan Willem and thank you for your response. Working in Logoport has always slowed me down for the following reasons:

1) There is usually about a 4 or 5 second delay between my command and pretranslated text appearing. While this does not seem much, if you multiply these 4 or 5 seconds by however many pretranslated segments appear (which in a job exceeding 50,000 words will be thousands), it adds up to a lot of time just sitting waiting.


As I said, I don't have that problem with Logoport (and yes, I've worked extensively with Logoport) PROVIDED that the serverside of things is in order.


2) The text that appears in non-exact matches takes me longer to correct than if I had entered the text from scratch, added to which I am sometimes paid as little as 25% for these segments. So not only am I taking longer to translate these segments than I would normally, I am also being paid less.


This might be personal. I personally just select the few words that need changing and type the correction over it - a very fast process, IMO.

[/quote]
3) The client asks that I do a final comparison between the Logoport translation and the original source document, ensuring that no segments have been missed and that all formatting is the same.
[/quote]

This I don't understand. I always do a complete check of every translation after I finish it. Do you mean your client requires you to do YET ANOTHER check?? And if he does, can't you just simply tell him you did that and deliver your work?


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Renée van Bijsterveld  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:56
Member (2007)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Higher rate is reasonable for work in Logoport Jan 27, 2008

I think the discounts for (fuzzy) matches you mention in itself would be ok for Logoport if the base rate is higher than for use of a local TM: you should keep in mind that word counts in Logoport include 'internal fuzzies', which is not the case for Trados. So an analysis in Logoport would give more fuzzies than an analyses in Trados.

Another thing to consider is, when there are more people working on the same project, in the same TM, these other translators can do with your translations what they want, including changing them. This means that if you have reps or internal fuzzies, you cannot be sure you are using your own translated material, or material someone else has changed. Of course you could check the ID, but, this again, takes extra time.

This, combined with the fact that using Logoport usually is slower than using a local TM (even with a broadband connection, sometimes traffic gets slow), makes working with Logoport very frustrating. I refuse Logoport projects as long as I can.


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Vadim Poguliaev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 01:56
English to Russian
Hi Carole Jan 27, 2008

Two points:

1. Ask customer to make TM export, you can easily translate the file in trados, convert it into logoport format and update online tm. That will fix latency issue. Tell them, you won't make it on time otherwise, usually it works=)
2. Logoport is a very treacherous tool. Unlike other CATs it counts so called "internal fuzzies" or "fuzzy repettions". It means that segments, that are say 80% similar, but not present, in TM are counted as fuzzy matches, meaning less money for you. Take that into account, when negotiating prices.

My grid for online tool with burglarious WC algorithm and unacceptable latencies would look like this:

100% and Reps: 30%
85-99%: 75%
0-84%: 100%
It may look high, but you get the idea=)
Anyway, 10% is too low for reps and 100%, frankly speaking I've never seen such rate=), and 75-84% are always counted as no matches.

Good luck!

[Edited at 2008-01-27 14:22]


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:56
Dutch to English
+ ...
My experience with Logoport is similar to Vadim's Jan 27, 2008

Vadim Poguliaev wrote:

Two points:

1. Ask customer to make TM export, you can easily translate the file in trados, convert it into logoport format and update online tm. That will fix latency issue. Tell them, you won't make it on time otherwise, usually it works=)
2. Logoport is a very treacherous tool. Unlike other CATs it counts so called "internal fuzzies" or "fuzzy repettions". It means that segments, that are say 80% similar, but not present, in TM are counted as fuzzy matches, meaning less money for you. Take that into account, when negotiating prices.

My grid for online tool with burglarious WC algorithm and unacceptable latencies would look like this:

100% and Reps: 30%
85-99%: 75%
0-84%: 100%
It may look high, but you get the idea=)
Anyway, 10% is too low for reps and 100%, frankly speaking I've never seen such rate=), and 75-84% are always counted as no matches.

Good luck!

[Edited at 2008-01-27 14:22]


The added bonus is that I get to keep a TM on my PC.

[Edited at 2008-01-27 15:09]


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