| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Legal and illegal translators Thread poster: balticvip
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balticvip
Local time: 20:38
English to Lithuanian
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Here is one from the agency side.....
Take the following scenario:
We locate a translator, secure the job and issue a PO setting the payment terms.
We receive the invoice and send the bank transfer electronically through BACS (IBAN) and we cover our bank charges obviously. The payment goes through, leaves our account, but then bounces back with a reason for return as "this person does not have the right to receive money as he/she is not registered as self employe... See more Here is one from the agency side.....
Take the following scenario:
We locate a translator, secure the job and issue a PO setting the payment terms.
We receive the invoice and send the bank transfer electronically through BACS (IBAN) and we cover our bank charges obviously. The payment goes through, leaves our account, but then bounces back with a reason for return as "this person does not have the right to receive money as he/she is not registered as self employed or a legal entity."
This is 20 Euro down the drain for the initial bank transfer and then up to a further 60 Euro for processing the sum to be returned irrelevant of whether we want it back or not.
We are a legal agency and do things (especially from financial and registration of payments point of view) by the book.
One of my favourite ones was where a translator who agrees to bank transfers when accepting the job etc sends an invoice and on it mentions that the bank transfer should contain "Humanitarian Aid" rather than “Services or the PO number” as a reason for transfer. Now this would leave us the agency (especially one in a country where the IRS is as friendly at issuing fines for the most mundane reasons) up the creek without a paddle.
Some people want us just to send cash without an invoice or use money bookers even when it was clearly marked on the PO that we pay by Bank Transfer. How do we register this payment?
Why do we have to be put in a position where translators threaten negative BlueBoard comments and become abusive because they either can not be bothered to register themselves legally and expect us to haphazardly break the law to accommodate their needs.
I think that there should be both a way on ProZ where we can see translators who are legal (registered and able to issue a formal invoice, maintain their own taxes, etc) and illegal (unregistered and not officially able to issue an invoice, avoiding taxes, etc)...
Actually, speaking honestly – ProZ is a place which protects translators (rightfully so…) from unscrupulous jobs, clients etc, yet there is very little to protect the agency from dodgy translators – no way to review them and share comments on translators who have false profiles, non deliverables, late deliverables, terrible quality and, in this case, are operating illegally within their country and want us to risk facing fines or paying extra so that they may continue doing so.
ProZ is a place where agencies and clients can find resources and these resources can find work. This is a two way process and we both need each other to succeed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X) 
Spain
Local time: 19:38
Spanish to English
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| How do you choose your suppliers? | Feb 26, 2008 |
balticvip wrote:
translators who have false profiles, non deliverables, late deliverables, terrible quality and, in this case, are operating illegally within their country and want us to risk facing fines or paying extra so that they may continue doing so.
I don't have a false profile, I always deliver, I'm never late in delivering, I think my quality is acceptable as noone has ever complained, I am legal, I would never expect to be given or even ask for a job if I weren't legal.
I am 100% against any kind of translator Blue Board (it's been argued to death before so I won't go into the details), even though the kind of people you mention are giving MY profession a bad name.
I'm sorry for your bad experiences, but I think your procedures for choosing your suppliers may need to be reviewed.
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:38
English to Arabic
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| A bit surprised | Feb 26, 2008 |
Does a person have to be registered as self-employed in order to be able to receive money? I've always paid taxes since starting to work in the UK, but for the first two years I had a normal current account (not a business account), and I don't think the bank had any idea whether or not I was self-employed or registered as such.
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:38
Flemish to English
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| Another point of view | Feb 26, 2008 |
Although it is one EU, legislation differs in different countries.
Why should a translator pay bank-charges? Aren't these included in your invoice to the end customer. Anybody can have a bank-account. Some countries allow "prestations occasionelles" and have a far more lenient legislation than others. How you deal with your administration at your Lithouanian side of the deal is your business. Moneybookers is an efficient tool for money-transfer where unlike the others, you do not loose too... See more Although it is one EU, legislation differs in different countries.
Why should a translator pay bank-charges? Aren't these included in your invoice to the end customer. Anybody can have a bank-account. Some countries allow "prestations occasionelles" and have a far more lenient legislation than others. How you deal with your administration at your Lithouanian side of the deal is your business. Moneybookers is an efficient tool for money-transfer where unlike the others, you do not loose too much on bank and transfer costs.
[Bijgewerkt op 2008-02-26 22:22] ▲ Collapse
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James McVay
United States
Local time: 13:38
Russian to English
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| Illegal translator? | Feb 26, 2008 |
I wonder what country the translator lives in. I don't think any US bank would require me to be registered as self-employed or a legal entity before accepting a funds transfer.
Before starting to work as a freelancer, my wife and I set up a limited liability company, but I kind of wonder if it was a good idea, especially since the company has to pay unemployment tax on its one employee -- me. And I retired from my previous job, so I'm never going to file for unemployment . . .
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The payment goes through, leaves our account, but then bounces back with a reason for return as "this person does not have the right to receive money as he/she is not registered as self employed or a legal entity."
I had no idea that a bank transfer could be bounced in this way!
It's great that you post this valid comment about how your business is affected by these unprofessional people.
I do think that ProZ provides some ways to verify a translator - isn't that what WWA is about? Even if negative WWA's are not possible, at least having a translator with several positive ones should be a rough gauge. The verified ID icon is also good to check.
There is a place in the profile to include a VAT/Tax ID number, so that others can check the validity. By the way, assuming you work with Euro zone translators, you could check that they have a valid VAT number before issuing the PO. For other countries, this would be more complex, I can't imagine how ProZ could provide any verification service?
If someone is threatening you with negative Blue board comments in the context you describe, I would expect that ProZ staff would react in your favor.
| | | | Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:38
Russian to English
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In memoriam | Vat registration not required in UK | Feb 27, 2008 |
In the UK, though it is (unfortunately, in my opinion) a member of the EU, you do not have to be registered for VAT unless you earn over a certain amount, not sure exactly what but I think it's over GBP40,000. And there is no "registered as self-employed" status unless you mean registered with the taxation authorities as such, which of course you have to be to pay tax on freelance earnings, but the question has never arisen as far as receiving payments to a bank account is concerned.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 10:38
English to German
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In memoriam | Name of recipient not identical with account holder? | Feb 27, 2008 |
A similar thing happened to me a few years ago when a client ignored the letterhead of my invoice and made out the check to Nicole Schnell rather than my company. My bank refused to deposit the check in my business account. Reason: Name of payee and name of the account holder are not identical.
Maybe it was the other way around here and the translator was operating with a (non-registered) fantasy company name, meaning that the payment will not be accepted for a personal account?
... See more A similar thing happened to me a few years ago when a client ignored the letterhead of my invoice and made out the check to Nicole Schnell rather than my company. My bank refused to deposit the check in my business account. Reason: Name of payee and name of the account holder are not identical.
Maybe it was the other way around here and the translator was operating with a (non-registered) fantasy company name, meaning that the payment will not be accepted for a personal account?
Just a thought. ▲ Collapse
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Oleg Rudavin
Ukraine
Local time: 20:38
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
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| It's probably about the FSU | Feb 27, 2008 |
Nesrin wrote: Does a person have to be registered as self-employed in order to be able to receive money?
As one example,. according to the legislation of Ukraine, I have to have a separate account for business purposes, and that account is to be registered with the taxation authorities. More relevant, the law forbids banks to credit payments to private accounts if the payment documents show it's payment for work done. All such monies should be transfered via entrepreneurial accounts.
[Edited at 2008-02-27 06:15]
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 10:38
English to German
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In memoriam | This is absolutely correct. | Feb 27, 2008 |
Oleg Rudavin wrote:
More relevant, the law forbids banks to credit payments to private accounts if the payment documents show it's payment for work done
I couldn't deposit the payment for freelance work on my personal account either. The client had to write a new check.
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I am also starting with translations now. I have asked the accounting, whether the business acount is necessary. She told me, that I can use my private bank acount for business too, if I think there won´t be many orders at the beginning. She will account the operation as they were cash operation. She recommends to have business bank account in the future, if I have more orders. As every beginning is hard.
This doesn´t have to do with if it is legal or illegal, because I have trade licen... See more I am also starting with translations now. I have asked the accounting, whether the business acount is necessary. She told me, that I can use my private bank acount for business too, if I think there won´t be many orders at the beginning. She will account the operation as they were cash operation. She recommends to have business bank account in the future, if I have more orders. As every beginning is hard.
This doesn´t have to do with if it is legal or illegal, because I have trade licence, I am paying taxes (income tax) from both of my jobs - as an empoyee and as an enterpriser.
We don´t need to be payer of VAT, it is optional if someone does´t reach the definite sum of income, then it is obliged.
Maybe sorry for some english mistakes, I prefer german translating
Nesrin wrote:
Does a person have to be registered as self-employed in order to be able to receive money? I've always paid taxes since starting to work in the UK, but for the first two years I had a normal current account (not a business account), and I don't think the bank had any idea whether or not I was self-employed or registered as such. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oleg Rudavin
Ukraine
Local time: 20:38
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
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| The situation with BalticVIP is different | Feb 27, 2008 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
I couldn't deposit the payment for freelance work on my personal account either. The client had to write a new check.
That's OK - you have a business account. but balticvip wrote:...a translator who agrees to bank transfers when accepting the job etc sends an invoice and on it mentions that the bank transfer should contain "Humanitarian Aid" rather than “Services or the PO number” as a reason for transfer. - the translator knows s/he won't be able to receive the money if it mentions "payment for services" or "invoice #" and deliverately asks for a "grey" payment.
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| I have an imression | Feb 27, 2008 |
balticvip wrote:
... or use money bookers even when it was clearly marked on the PO that we pay by Bank Transfer. How do we register this payment?
..
thay your bookkeeper needs some additional training to what she/he has received in her/his basic training course.
| | | | | always a way to check... | Feb 27, 2008 |
I think there's always a way to check whether the translator works "officially".
In France for instance, we have a SIRET number even if we are not VAT registered. This number can be checked.
A professionnal account isn't mandatory in France but you must be able to prove the source of your income. I use two usual accounts for my business and my bank statements have to match my accounting entries.
Now I think that it is true that some do not work officially.... See more I think there's always a way to check whether the translator works "officially".
In France for instance, we have a SIRET number even if we are not VAT registered. This number can be checked.
A professionnal account isn't mandatory in France but you must be able to prove the source of your income. I use two usual accounts for my business and my bank statements have to match my accounting entries.
Now I think that it is true that some do not work officially. When a translator living in France (or in another country where taxes are high) asks for low rates, I can't help suspecting he/she won't declare her/his income as he/she won't "loose" anything on the amount. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | onle little nuance | Feb 27, 2008 |
balticvip wrote:
We locate a translator, secure the job and issue a PO setting the payment terms.
....
Some people want us just to send cash without an invoice or use money bookers even when it was clearly marked on the PO that we pay by Bank Transfer.
What do you mean by "secure the job" and when do you issue your PO?
Because you don't "set payment terms", but agree on payment terms with your contractor. If by "secure the job" you mean that you give the translator your go-ahead without having discussed the payment method, and issue the PO when the work has already started (may be even completed) - then whatever you "set" in your PO is nothing more than your wishes, and you have as much grounds to insist on wire transfer as your translator has to require cash payment.
In fact, what matters is how you and your contractor define all the essential terms of your agreement and abide by them, rather than what you believe is legal or illegal in their country.
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