| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | PayPal fees for the one who pays? Thread poster: Janina Dörnath (X)
|
|---|
Thorson
Local time: 08:59
Danish to English
| Paypal actually saves them money | Mar 13, 2008 |
It takes a few seconds to do a paypal payment, so they are actually saving money in time and labor compared to the time to do a bank transfer or mailing a check.
With paypal you would have the money in seconds, and they would have to pay it immediately, which makes me think they want to pay by check so the balance is in their account a few extra weeks.
Definitely stear clear of an outfit that is nickle-and-diming like that.
| | | | | That was exactly my point | Mar 13, 2008 |
Thorson wrote:
It takes a few seconds to do a paypal payment, so they are actually saving money in time and labor compared to the time to do a bank transfer or mailing a check.
With paypal you would have the money in seconds, and they would have to pay it immediately, which makes me think they want to pay by check so the balance is in their account a few extra weeks.
Definitely stear clear of an outfit that is nickle-and-diming like that.
That's exactly one of the points I wanted to make. It's simply more convenient for them this way for whatever the reasons and that's all they care about. I know, it's business, but still. In my opinion, it's like a bit of a "reprisal" they take for not doing things they way they like. You don't follow my rules? Ok, so I'll charge you 10USD. They could as well charge more.
I agree that in big jobs this might not be that important, but bear in mind that this basically means you're paying fees twice: once from the company charging you this arbitrary fee, plus the usual fee from PayPal. Let's add a couple more ingredients to the mix: the usually unfavourable exchange rates that PayPal applies (as tonymacg mentioned) plus the fact that the dollar is getting weaker and weaker in relation to other currencies (the company I'm thinking about only pays en USD, of course). For me, the total amount deducted by them is of secondary importance; for me, the point here is that they deduct this money for no reason at all (other than their own benefit).
Yes, I agree, stay clear from them; pity they are one of the big ones, with important clients and offices in many countries around the world. Not just a little tiny agency, if you know what I mean. And especially because of this, I think they could do better than that.
| | | | JPW (X) 
Local time: 07:59
Spanish to English
+ ...
I don't exactly know who this company is, much less do I want any dealings with them, but isn't there some sort of machinery over there whereby you can report them for say, malpractice (or worse)?
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 23:59
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | I am wondering what Paypal might think about this | Mar 13, 2008 |
Maybe they wouldn't be too exited to learn that a company is (mis)using their services as a tool to make extra money.
Just a thought.
(You also don't have to upload money to make a payment, so there is no fee, either, BTW).
[Edited at 2008-03-13 20:15]
| | |
|
|
|
| not as simple as it sounds | Mar 14, 2008 |
As far as I know, PayPal DO charge businesses for sending money but do not charge private individuals. Their rates are similar to those of other financial institutions.
I know this to my cost because I asked one of my customers to pay me via PayPal and they were rather miffed to have spent time setting up the account just for me, only to find there was no advantage!
Anthony
| | | | Janina Dörnath (X)
Germany
Local time: 08:59
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Link to US PayPal fees | Mar 14, 2008 |
Here's a link to the fees PayPal charges in the US. You don't need to log in to get there.
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside
Sending money is free for both, private individuals and businesses. There are fees for receiving money, and, I admit that, for cross currency payments. But is that really money they loose, or I, i... See more Here's a link to the fees PayPal charges in the US. You don't need to log in to get there.
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside
Sending money is free for both, private individuals and businesses. There are fees for receiving money, and, I admit that, for cross currency payments. But is that really money they loose, or I, if they pay me?
[Edited at 2008-03-14 10:35]
[Edited at 2008-03-14 10:52] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 23:59
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Not quite right | Mar 14, 2008 |
Anthony Green wrote:
As far as I know, PayPal DO charge businesses for sending money but do not charge private individuals. Their rates are similar to those of other financial institutions.
I know this to my cost because I asked one of my customers to pay me via PayPal and they were rather miffed to have spent time setting up the account just for me, only to find there was no advantage!
Anthony
I have a Paypal Premier account and I am listed as a business.
Here is how their fees are listed (I just logged in):
Open an Account
Personal Account: Free
Premier/Business Account: Free
Send Money
Personal Account: Free
Premier/Business Account: Free
Add Funds
Personal Account: Free
Premier/Business Account: Free
Fees for cross-border payments are due only when payments are received. Sending money is free.
When the client was miffed about having to set up a Paypal account, it was most likely due to the annoying procedure (bank account / credit cards must be verified) which takes a couple of days.
Fees? No. On the contrary: When opening an account Paypal is sending you a random, tiny amount of money. Then you have to check your account and tell Paypal, how much they sent. They let you even keep the couple of cents!
| | | | | I still don't see what's all the fuss about... | Mar 14, 2008 |
Really people, malpractice? Denouce them to Paypal? (like, they would care!) Why is everyone assuming the company acts in bad faith? I could understand the suspicions if the fee was disclosed after completing a job; in that case a dispute is due to ocurr. But they were clear about it, and I gather they also offer you other payment options without the fee.
We are in no position to judge exactly where the charge arises from; for you, a sole-propietor, using Paypal is a few clic... See more Really people, malpractice? Denouce them to Paypal? (like, they would care!) Why is everyone assuming the company acts in bad faith? I could understand the suspicions if the fee was disclosed after completing a job; in that case a dispute is due to ocurr. But they were clear about it, and I gather they also offer you other payment options without the fee.
We are in no position to judge exactly where the charge arises from; for you, a sole-propietor, using Paypal is a few clicks away. For a big company it very well may mean filing complex documentation in order to comply with national financial regulations regarding foreign trade and money laudering auditing, or maybe for security reasons there's only one computer in the whole building with internet access and the accountant hates to leave his desk to perform the operation because he has bunions. Really, we don't know, and we shouldn't care; it's their business decision to make in the first place. The only effect it should have on you is to determine your bussines conditions now that you know their terms; you can for example add just a cent to your rate and in 1000 words you'll cover the fee, or decide that you hate the bunion-sporting accountant and add 2 cents just to spite him.
I don't particularly like Paypal, their fees are outrageous, and I don't like the withdrawal method available for my country either (postal checks), so I usually quote a slightly higher rate if a client wants to pay me this way. I am no trying to embezzle my clients for a little premium, I'm just providing them an incentive to make an old-fashion bank transfer. Or you can lookt at it the other way round and say that I provide a discount when they pay me by bank transfer; the overall effect is the same.
All in all, if you don't like the company's approach simply look at them as an opportunity to increase your rates. Quote well over your standard rates and see what happens; if you lost them you won't really regret it, but if they accept your conditions you'll be earning that fee many times over. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 23:59
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Type of the company doesn't matter | Mar 14, 2008 |
Rossana Triaca wrote:
For a big company it very well may mean filing complex documentation in order to comply with national financial regulations regarding foreign trade and money laudering
We are a corporation and we don't pay fees.
The point is that an agency tries to deduct a particular amount from the translator's invoice. In case the agency claims that this is due to fees paid to Paypal, then they are lying.
| | | | | Suspicions, suspicions... | Mar 14, 2008 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
The point is that an agency tries to deduct a particular amount from the translator's invoice. In case the agency claims that this is due to fees paid to Paypal, then they are lying.
I didn't gather that they claimed Paypal charges them that fee, only that they charged extra if that was the method used:
Janina Dörnath wrote:
(...) need 10$ for their extra work included in PayPal
I understood that to mean "Paypal is a fuss for us so we have an internal charge of USD 10 deducted from your payment". If they claim the cost is entirely due to Paypal charging them fees, the scenario changes, and I would politely inquire where exactly this fee is levied (mentioning that I also have a business account etc. etc.). In either case the monetary end result is the same; you have to cover 10 bucks raising your rates.
Just to be clear, I wouldn't do business with a company I don't really trust (i.e., if I suspect they are lying), or with downright penny-pinching outfits (which I've seen my share of), but I wouldn't assume right off the bat that just because I'm not subject to those fees they are not either (how about the way you fund your Paypal account? Is it the same cost regardless of the method? (speaking of a USA-based corporate account - mine is business but in a different country).
| | | | juvera
Local time: 07:59
English to Hungarian
+ ...
| What the fuss is all about? About the practice they are trying on. | Mar 18, 2008 |
Rossana Triaca wrote:
We are in no position to judge exactly where the charge arises from; for you, a sole-propietor, using Paypal is a few clicks away. For a big company it very well may mean filing complex documentation in order to comply with national financial regulations regarding foreign trade and money laudering auditing, or maybe for security reasons there's only one computer in the whole building with internet access and the accountant hates to leave his desk to perform the operation because he has bunions. Really, we don't know, and we shouldn't care; it's their business decision to make in the first place. The only effect it should have on you is to determine your bussines conditions now that you know their terms; you can for example add just a cent to your rate and in 1000 words you'll cover the fee, or decide that you hate the bunion-sporting accountant and add 2 cents just to spite him.
All in all, if you don't like the company's approach simply look at them as an opportunity to increase your rates. Quote well over your standard rates and see what happens; if you lost them you won't really regret it, but if they accept your conditions you'll be earning that fee many times over.
To put it bluntly and make it short:
It is giving them a licence to charge you for whatever they like. It is giving ideas to other companies. Nice little earner.
It is particularly galling because they are "one of the big ones", who should know better than charging translators for a prevalent form of payment.
For a big company it very well may mean filing complex documentation in order to comply with national financial regulations regarding foreign trade and money laudering auditing, or maybe for security reasons there's only one computer in the whole building with internet access and the accountant hates to leave his desk to perform the operation because he has bunions.
Tough!
Are they the only ones having to fill in these forms?
Can't they organise their business better than having to traipse around to pay their suppliers?
It begs the question: are they charging $10 extra to their customers as well for having to receive their payment, or because they have to pay the translators?
Shall I charge 8 cents for translation and 2 cents for administration, plus 1 cent for going into the other room because the printer is there? Not to mention equipment, internet connection, software, dictionaries, coffee mug and handcream? Best of all, $10 per job for having to pay it to the agency for paying me!
| | | | | Running a business... | Mar 20, 2008 |
It is giving them a licence to charge you for whatever they like.
Agreeing on one specific term does not imply at all that you agree with any other conditions that may come up later on, particularly those that affect you financially. And yet again, as long as conditions are agreed upon beforehand, crystal clear, I don't see why we should concern ourselves on how they organize their business.
Also, Paypal being a prevalent form of payment highly depends on your geographical location I'm afraid (I know they are USA based, but their paychecks may very well be drawn up in an Indian bank these days), and the bunions were my far-fetched, humorous way to say that the reason they charge this fee may seem ludicrous to us, but not to them. We simply don't know, and I sort of like giving people the benefit of doubt.
One point in yout post really got my attention:
Shall I charge 8 cents for translation and 2 cents for administration, plus 1 cent for going into the other room because the printer is there?
Yes, you can charge that, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you should. You're not an employee, your services don't have an intrinsic value; you run a business and as such you must set your rates according to your own specific business case. You calculate your costs, based on any model that you think fits your business, and build from there.
In your example, definitely, I would quote more for a job that needs printing; toner is expensive down here, and my tree-hugging self doesn't root for paper either. I also charge more on weekends, or if I need to forego sleep to meet a deadline, and yes, I usually add a mark-up if I have to get up from my comfy chair and leave my office for whatever reason (for example, to do a job on-site, attend a coordination meeting, etc.). Bottom line is, if it inconveniences me in any way, I'm sure to charge you more for it to make it worth my while. It's a sound business decision for me, and hence I understand why it could be the same for them.
But after all it's been said and done, if Janina doesn't like this company's approach I'm all for sending them packing (I have refused many a job because the client didn't rub me in the right way). After all, you will have to deal with them on a daily basis and, if you don't like them, why subject yourself to that? What I don't agree with is to assume, with so little info, that they are trying to pull a fast one. I think it's jumping to conclusions, and I certainly wouldn't like that coming back at me. Karma thingy, you know?
| | |
|
|
|
juvera
Local time: 07:59
English to Hungarian
+ ...
| OK, I'll try again... | Mar 20, 2008 |
Rossana Triaca wrote: Agreeing on one specific term does not imply at all that you agree with any other conditions that may come up later on, particularly those that affect you financially. I don't see why we should concern ourselves on how they organize their business. Also, Paypal being a prevalent form of payment highly depends on your geographical location I'm afraid (I know they are USA based, but their paychecks may very well be drawn up in an Indian bank these days), and the bunions were my far-fetched, humorous way to say that the reason they charge this fee may seem ludicrous to us, but not to them. We simply don't know, and I sort of like giving people the benefit of doubt. One point in yout post really got my attention: Shall I charge 8 cents for translation and 2 cents for administration, plus 1 cent for going into the other room because the printer is there? Yes, you can charge that, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you should. You're not an employee, your services don't have an intrinsic value; you run a business and as such you must set your rates according to your own specific business case. You calculate your costs, based on any model that you think fits your business, and build from there. In your example, definitely, I would quote more for a job that needs printing; toner is expensive down here, and my tree-hugging self doesn't root for paper either. I also charge more on weekends, or if I need to forego sleep to meet a deadline, and yes, I usually add a mark-up if I have to get up from my comfy chair and leave my office for whatever reason (for example, to do a job on-site, attend a coordination meeting, etc.). Bottom line is, if it inconveniences me in any way, I'm sure to charge you more for it to make it worth my while. It's a sound business decision for me, and hence I understand why it could be the same for them.
I am sorry that you didn't understand my humour. (Or call it sarcasm if you like, towards these try-on practitioners.)
The key is in your own text, and I repeat it:
I don't see why we should concern ourselves on how they organize their business.
Precisely.
I am NOT interested how much they spend on this, that and the other, and they are NOT interested how I come to price my work, and that's how it should be.
I charge what I calculated, weighing up all the relevant factors for me, but don't send them a list of all my particularities.
In exchange, I expect them to do their business, without listing their woes. Then we either come to an agreement, or not.
Otherwise either side could end up writing ludicrous lists of extras or deductions. That's what they are trying to do, and that's what I was trying to illustrate.
That's why they shouldn't come up (pre or post agreement) with extra charges for something which, for a supposedly big agency, should be part and parcel of everyday business.
By the way, I don't use Paypal, but I understand, it is a common method of payment. You can mention any type of payment and you may find that it doesn't work in certain places or circumstances.
[Edited at 2008-03-20 22:41]
| | | | | Humour does get lost in translation :) | Mar 24, 2008 |
I see where you're coming from, and we basically agree, but for this:
That's why they shouldn't come up (pre or post agreement) with extra charges for something which, for a supposedly big agency, should be part and parcel of everyday business.
You see, for me it's fair game for them to "sing their woes" as you so aptly put it before the agreement takes place. They can rant about the costs they have for using Paypal, bank transfers, cheques, or whatever strikes their fancy, as long as I can adjust my rates accordingly before we shake hands. I don't find it abusive at all, for me it's part of standard negotiations, and it's fairly common to change rates and conditions for each client or project unless you work solely with big, cookie-cutter agencies. In the end, your hourly rate is all that matters, Paypal fee or not notwithstanding.
I often get the impression (and this is a general remark, aimed at noone in particular) that many translators still behave as employees; that was my whole point. You are not the powerless victim of a sudden paycut in your monthly wage; think the other way round: you're negotiating your own terms before taking on a new client. Don't hate me for the buzzword, but I truly believe it's empowering for translators (or any freelance for that matter) to think this way; your client base will definitely grow more slowly, but with premium clients and top paying projects.
[Edited at 2008-03-24 05:45]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » PayPal fees for the one who pays? | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
