| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: 1 Google search = 1 hour burning a light bulb Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch
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| I am not a pirate, why should I pay? | Jul 18, 2008 |
So you reckon that all of us, who use hard disks, DVD disks, and the Internet for professional reasons, should pay because people are using these means for illegal activities? Are you publicly supporting that we translators pay for our work tools because of what other people do with them?
Would you favour that user of wrenches pay a toll because some people use wrenches to take apart stolen cars?
All users of a technology (and in the case of Internet, a technology that is changing the world for the better in so many senses) are tried and condemned to pay just because of other people's guilt. It really amazes me that otherwise perfectly sensible people are able to justify and support measures to punish the whole of a society for the guilt of a few!!!
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Tomás Cano Binder wrote: So you reckon that all of us, who use hard disks, DVD disks, and the Internet for professional reasons, should pay because people are using these means for illegal activities? Are you publicly supporting that we translators pay for our work tools because of what other people do with them? Would you favour that user of wrenches pay a toll because some people use wrenches to take apart stolen cars? All users of a technology (and in the case of Internet, a technology that is changing the world for the better in so many senses) are tried and condemned to pay just because of other people's guilt. It really amazes me that otherwise perfectly sensible people are able to justify and support measures to punish the whole of a society for the guilt of a few!!!
Easy now. You're jumping to conclusions here.
I didn't even comment on the entire toll business because I think that part of the discussion is sliding into the realm of grotesqueness in a hurry and I fear it won't amount to anything at the end of the day. I'm already paying a toll - I get an invoice from my ISP each month - and so are the spammers and pirates.
So please don't accuse me of saying anything I didn't say.
That said, I do find the notion of paying sort of a "postage fee" for e-mail messages worth pursuing or at least evaluating further (I think this had been raised by Microsoft as an idea for solving the spam problem some time ago.)
Thank you,
Benjamin
[Edited at 2008-07-18 11:03]
| | | | Damian Harrison (X)
Germany
Local time: 06:24
German to English
I believe Tectranslate was actually in agreement with you Tomás....
| | | | | My apologies | Jul 18, 2008 |
tectranslate wrote:
I didn't even comment on the entire toll business because I think that part of the discussion is sliding into the realm of grotesqueness in a hurry and I fear it won't amount to anything at the end of the day.
My apologies then! It's just that all this paying for others really gets to my nerves!!
As for postage per email just to fight spam... ISPs are already fighting spam rather effectively. My ISP is a very small one and they have managed to come down from 250-300 spam messages 6 months ago to about 5-6 today. So spammers must be suffering already.
Those who are favouring "email postage" have their own reasons, and they are not spam precisely. But we always react the same way: some crime gets the full attention of big companies and media for a while, and we are ready to pay!
No, I don't think it's fair that I have to pay per email just because law enforcement authorities can't manage to arrest the 10 spammers who are generating 95% of all spam!
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Heinrich Pesch 
Finland
Local time: 07:24
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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TOPIC STARTER | Free internet | Jul 18, 2008 |
Free internet was a nice idea of the 90's, but how long can our economies afford it?
We are already paying for those people that occupy most of the bandwith sharing movies and videochat all day with their friends. The rates we professionals pay are covering these costs of course, otherwise the provider would be soon out of business.
From the beginning of this year I have sent 1164 email messages and accumulated about 800 Mb of files, part of them created by myself. And... See more Free internet was a nice idea of the 90's, but how long can our economies afford it?
We are already paying for those people that occupy most of the bandwith sharing movies and videochat all day with their friends. The rates we professionals pay are covering these costs of course, otherwise the provider would be soon out of business.
From the beginning of this year I have sent 1164 email messages and accumulated about 800 Mb of files, part of them created by myself. And probably I have downloaded another 1 Gb of files for applications I installed. (Big part of this the huge Trados 2007).
I pay 36 Euro each month.
So a internet tax would not hurt me at all.
I'm for it. The money could be spend on projects to help poor countries catch up on education etc.
Regards
Heinrich ▲ Collapse
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Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Free internet was a nice idea of the 90's, but how long can our economies afford it?
I'm for it. The money could be spend on projects to help poor countries catch up on education etc.
Ok. Let me suggest the following: How about taking the amount you estimate adequate as a toll for your use of Internet and give it directly to an NGO? The fact that you feel the urge to pay more for Internet (for whatever the reasons, real or imagined) does not mean we should do the same!
As for our economies affording free Internet, you must be well aware that all companies running the Internet and ISPs are free companies. They offer the service in exchange for a direct payment (the amount you pay to your ISP), subscription to services, eBusiness, and income from the advertising you see in most webpages. You enjoy a tremendously cost-effective service, and they make money and pay taxes that help pay our social support systems.
Now. Can you please explain what damage to "our economies" is causing Internet as it stands today? Sorry Heinrich. I don't get it.
| | | | | Internet, getting cheaper and cheaper | Jul 18, 2008 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
We are already paying for those people that occupy most of the bandwith sharing movies and videochat all day with their friends. The rates we professionals pay are covering these costs of course, otherwise the provider would be soon out of business.
Do you pay a "professional rate" in Finland for your Internet access? Over here in Spain we pay the same as everyone else. If we want to have a more throughput, a dedicated IP address or guaranteed speed, we pay a little bit more.
AND along time we keep getting more and more bandwidth for the same money (most probably the same situation in Finland). Despite "those people that occupy most of the bandwidth sharing movies". The telecomms systems used in Internet networks get more and more powerful every day, consume less and less energy, and allow speeds that could only be imagined at the beginning of the 90's.
So I don't see how we are paying for those who use Internet for other things than ourselves.
[Edited at 2008-07-18 12:14]
| | | | Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:24
Russian to English
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In memoriam | Global Warming Denial | Jul 18, 2008 |
Holocaust Denial is a crime in some countries. If Global Warming Denial ever became one, I would be guilty of it. There is no global warming! Increase in carbon dioxide due to human activities is infinitesimal, and would take millions of years to reach the level of Venus, where it is a greenhouse gas. There was a TV programme shown in the UK about three years ago called "The Great Global Warming Swindle", offering proof that any increase in carbon dioxide has no effect until after a time lag... See more Holocaust Denial is a crime in some countries. If Global Warming Denial ever became one, I would be guilty of it. There is no global warming! Increase in carbon dioxide due to human activities is infinitesimal, and would take millions of years to reach the level of Venus, where it is a greenhouse gas. There was a TV programme shown in the UK about three years ago called "The Great Global Warming Swindle", offering proof that any increase in carbon dioxide has no effect until after a time lag of 500 years. Increase in sunspot activity, on the other hand, does have an immediate effect. We went though a period of high sunspot activity a few years ago, but sunspot activity is now low again, so what little effect there was has now stopped, a fact recognized even by the global warming fanatics, who are now telling us we can expect a few years grace till it starts up again, which it almost certainly won't.
Christopher Booker writes a regular column in the UK "Sunday Telegraph" exposing such nonsense (when he is not busy doing a similar well-deserved hatchet job on the EU). Apparently all this alarm started when the 1990s, which is of course the last full decade for which we have full statistics, was believed to h\ve been the warmest of the century, but this has now been proved to be wrong, it was warmer in the thirties. I recently visited Norway, where I learned that 7000 years ago there was no ice or snow anywhere in Norway, it was too warm. So what caused that? Methane from reindeer? The warmest summers I personally remember were 1940 and 1976, and I believe 1914 was also exceptionally warm. The coldest winter was 1963, quite a while ago, but I don't doubt another one will come along some time.
Politicians everywhere want to be seen to be doing something about this, and what they do always seems to involve putting higher taxes on something. It's a good wheeze from their point of view.
Don't get me wrong, I am not in favour of letting everything go ahead full blast and damn the consequences. It was a good thing to take measures against smog in London in the 1950s. It was a good thing to bring in lead-free petrol in the 1980s. And certainly the supply of fossil fuels is not unlimited, so measures to switch to other forms of energy are justified (with the exception of building huge heavily subsidised wind farms, creating eyesores of enormous windmills in what was previously beautiful countryside, and requiring the building of back-up generating capacity for when the wind isn't blowing).
But global warming? I think people in the 22nd century are going to look back in amazement at how the world was punishing itself for nothing on this issue!
Forgive the long rant, but no doubt I'll get some replies telling me how wrong I am. ▲ Collapse
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| Have to strike you from my list... | Jul 18, 2008 |
Jack Doughty wrote:
If Global Warming Denial ever became one, I would be guilty of it. There is no global warming! Increase in carbon dioxide due to human activities is infinitesimal, and would take millions of years to reach the level of Venus, where it is a greenhouse gas.
Sorry Jack, but this is so politically incorrect. I have no option but to strike you from my list of sensible, caring, reasonable people. How you dare!?
| | | | Damian Harrison (X)
Germany
Local time: 06:24
German to English
| The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle | Jul 18, 2008 |
From the wikipedia article on "The Great Global Warming Swindle":
* The Royal Society has issued a press release in reaction to the film. In it, Martin Rees, the president of the Royal Society, shortly restates the predominant scientific opinion on climate change and adds:
Scientists will continue to monitor the global climate and the factors which influence it. It is important that all legitimate potential scientific explanations continue to be considered a... See more From the wikipedia article on "The Great Global Warming Swindle":
* The Royal Society has issued a press release in reaction to the film. In it, Martin Rees, the president of the Royal Society, shortly restates the predominant scientific opinion on climate change and adds:
Scientists will continue to monitor the global climate and the factors which influence it. It is important that all legitimate potential scientific explanations continue to be considered and investigated. Debate will continue, and the Royal Society has just hosted a two day discussion meeting attended by over 300 scientists, but it must not be at the expense of action. Those who promote fringe scientific views but ignore the weight of evidence are playing a dangerous game. They run the risk of diverting attention from what we can do to ensure the world's population has the best possible future.[21]
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle#Reception.2C_criticism_and_changes_made_due_to_criticisms
I suggest anyone interested the topic read this article on the film. ▲ Collapse
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While Global Warming may be fact or fiction (I, for one believe in it), this topic is in danger of getting hotter and hotter to the point where somebody might get burned.
It may be wise to keep section 1.3 of the forum rules in mind at this point which states that Objectionable content should be left out of job postings. Content that is political, of an adult nature, or otherwise potentially offensiv... See more While Global Warming may be fact or fiction (I, for one believe in it), this topic is in danger of getting hotter and hotter to the point where somebody might get burned.
It may be wise to keep section 1.3 of the forum rules in mind at this point which states that Objectionable content should be left out of job postings. Content that is political, of an adult nature, or otherwise potentially offensive, should not be included in the body of a job posting.
(emphasis added by me)
All the best,
Benjamin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 22:24
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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Damian Harrison (X)
Germany
Local time: 06:24
German to English
| Boy are YOU in trouble... | Jul 18, 2008 |
Oh dear, I fear posting a link to blackle was a wonderful way to get yourself into trouble.
Tomás will be tearing his hair out...
... and rightly so perhaps - a recent study showed that blackle does not actually save energy and actually consumes more energy on some monitors...
[Edited at 2008-07-18 13:29]
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Sorry folks. Honestly to me talking about the terrible consequences of technological advance is simply irrational. Internet is bringing tons of business, health, care, and entertainment options to everyone and is in fact making a more open, interconnected world. It allows us to meet people we would never meet in an "Internet-less" world. It allows us to better understand other people and learn about their dreams, traditions, hopes and needs.
And in fact, Internet is creating a low-e... See more Sorry folks. Honestly to me talking about the terrible consequences of technological advance is simply irrational. Internet is bringing tons of business, health, care, and entertainment options to everyone and is in fact making a more open, interconnected world. It allows us to meet people we would never meet in an "Internet-less" world. It allows us to better understand other people and learn about their dreams, traditions, hopes and needs.
And in fact, Internet is creating a low-energy economy which is simply good for the environment. A rapidly increasing part of the population works and makes a reasonable living out of Internet and related services.
We as translators are among the people who obtain the biggest benefits from Internet. It helps us deal with our work faster, get more work, and receive our work right in our homes, where we can comfortably work in our pijamas should we wish to. Isn't that a luxury? Wouldn't most people wish that for their lives? That's why I find it plain odd that we try to destroy the free, cooperative and open spirit of Internet just because Google's servers produce heat. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Damian Harrison (X)
Germany
Local time: 06:24
German to English
With you all the way on that one Tomás.
But exploring how could we could make the internet more energy efficient wouldn't hurt that much, would it?
[Edited at 2008-07-18 14:34]
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