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Off topic: Facts about Linux vs. Windows - request for help
Thread poster: Andrzej Lejman

Andrzej Lejman  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
German to Polish
+ ...
Jan 20, 2004

Dear all,

I am looking for credible data on:
- global number of PCs running Window$ vs. number of PCs running Linux
- same as above for servers
- global turnover on Window$ and Linux operating sustems
in 2003 + estimates for 2003.

I have made some Internet searches, but couldn't find anything that would make sense.
I am aware of the fact, that exact figures are not available, but there must exist some statistics, estimates etc.
I appreciate any help.

Regards
Andrzej

[Edited at 2004-01-20 18:02]


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
German to English
+ ...
Installed base Jan 20, 2004

Hi Andrzej,

There are no hard statistics for Linux, for obvious reasons. If you search a little you'll find some figures; it's up to you to decide how credible they are. Always bear in mind who's publishing them.

It isn't simply "Windows vs. Linux"; on the server market, UNIX is also a major player, for example. Use "desktop" rather than "PC" when searching.

Try googling for

"installed base" linux unix windows servers desktop percent statistics

For example

http://www.zdnet.com.au/itmanager/technology/0,2000029587,20281489,00.htm
http://www.technologydecisions.com/backissue/0303/issue/3_10_03_69.asp
http://www.newsforge.com/business/02/09/17/0111258.shtml?tid=19


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mrippa  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:39
English to Italian
Privacy - anywhere? Jan 21, 2004

Andrzej Lejman wrote:

Dear all,

I am looking for credible data on:
- global number of PCs running Window$ vs. number of PCs running Linux
-
[Edited at 2004-01-20 18:02]


No offence Andrzej, but, luckly enough, if these data exists they are inaccurate. Should we have to declare the Operating System(s) that we run on our machines?


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Web server log files Jan 21, 2004

Client systems:
Some web space providers offer overviews as well as detailed information about the operating systems and browsers used by their visitors.

Server systems:
Every queried server identifies itself. It could be checked with a CGI script sending queries to random IP adresses.

Now we are still far from the results, but these are effective ways for a field research.

BTW - why do you ask ?

PS: global turnover for Linux is easy: US$ 0.00
turnover for windows$x!~: ask Bill

[Edited at 2004-01-21 10:21]


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mrippa  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:39
English to Italian
3 cases that can make web servers' statistiscs inaccurate.... Jan 21, 2004

Harry_B wrote:

Client systems:
Some web space providers offer overviews as well as detailed information about the operating systems and browsers used by their visitors.

[Edited at 2004-01-21 10:21]


1) What if I use a computer running Linux as firewall for my networked PCs running Windows?

2) Is it mandatory for a PC to be connected to the Internet?

3) And what if I have installed on a single machine both a Windows OS and a Linux distribution?

[Edited at 2004-01-21 10:30]


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
German to English
+ ...
Privacy Jan 21, 2004

Massimo Rippa wrote:

No offence Andrzej, but, luckly enough, if these data exists they are inaccurate. Should we have to declare the Operating System(s) that we run on our machines?


Andrzej is obviously only looking for statistics. I don't think his hidden agenda is to track down Italian translators who are using pirated Windows software.

Information of this kind usually comes from manufacturers' declarations of how many units they've sold. Manufacturers aren't necessarily honest but they can only "massage" the figures so much before they run foul of the fiscal authorities or share trading regulators.

Where software is concerned, the number of licenses sold can't be related very easily to the installed base because there's no reliable way of gauging the working life of the product. Where Linux is concerned, the number of licenses sold is itself not a quantifiable variable, as Linux licenses aren't sold. The number of downloads is sometimes quoted but this figure is largely meaningless.

Figures for the installed base of servers are therefore generally based upon industry data for third-party installation of server systems (hardware and software together) or, as Harry points out, Internet log statistics.

For the desktop, it's anybody's guess.

Marc


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
What if.. Jan 21, 2004

1) What if I use a computer running Linux as firewall for my networked PCs running Windows?
Interesting question, to see the answer visit:
http://www.freecap.info/cgi-bin/servertest.pl

For me it shows:
HTTP_USER_AGENT = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; DT)

2) Is it mandatory for a PC to be connected to the Internet?
Yes, at least some times

3) And what if I have installed on a single machine both a Windows OS and a Linux distribution?
You cannot use both at once.

[Edited at 2004-01-21 11:25]


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Andrzej Lejman  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
German to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Wrong! Jan 21, 2004

Harry_B wrote:
PS: global turnover for Linux is easy: US$ 0.00
[Edited at 2004-01-21 10:21]


You overlook that Linux distributions are not for free. There were estimated over $ 4,4 bln turnover in total in 2003.

What I am looking for, are only global statistics. The purpose: I am preparing a big story on Linux (from the very beginning until now) for a Polish computer magazine.
I am not a Linux fan, but this was the publisher's decision...

It is also not my intention to spy proz users

The problem is that statistics of that kind are often available only from market reaserchers like IDC. They cost up to several thousand $, that my publisher ist not willing to spend, unfortunately.

Anyway, thanks to all for the input!

Regards
Andrzej


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Wrong? Jan 21, 2004

Andrzej Lejman wrote:
...You overlook that Linux distributions are not for free. There were estimated over $ 4,4 bln turnover in total in 2003..

Where did you get this from?
Of course, you can sell the air with package and postage to your neighbor, but I don't think this is really meant.


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mrippa  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:39
English to Italian
Nice link Harry... Jan 21, 2004

Harry_B wrote:

://www.freecap.info/cgi-bin/servertest.pl



Luckly enough there are still bugs: while it correctly identifies my Windows XP system as
Windows NT 5.1, it fails to identify corectly my Windows 2000 laptop (for it shows Windows NT 4.0, instead of 5.0).



Harry_B wrote:

2) Is it mandatory for a PC to be connected to the Internet?
Yes, at least some times


You know that for many heavy duty workstations, e.g. used in production lines this is not true:-)

Harry_B wrote:
3) And what if I have installed on a single machine both a Windows OS and a Linux distribution?
You cannot use both at once.


Still that machine runs Windows and Linux, isn't it?

Well, what I acctually want to say is that I hate statistics, I don't like to be tracked down nor when I am behind my machine nor when I am at the grocery store. And all of you know that right now there is a big pressure on ISP to track and mantain as many info that they can on their user. A policy that frankly I detest. And BTW Mark, long ago I decided to pay for all the software I use for my work

[Edited at 2004-01-21 11:33]


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Andrzej Lejman  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
German to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Definitely wrong! Jan 21, 2004

Harry_B wrote:
Of course, you can sell the air with package and postage to your neighbor, but I don't think this is really meant.


Have a look here:
http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/purchase/
and here:
http://www.suse.de/en/business/products/server/sles/prices_ipf.html

The figure of $ 4,4 bln comes from IDC.

Regards
Andrzej


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:39
German to English
+ ...
Wrong! Wrong? Jan 21, 2004

You overlook that Linux distributions are not for free. There were estimated over $ 4,4 bln turnover in total in 2003.


The Linux license is free. The turnover in distributions relates to the sale of the media, documentation, and support. The distinction is important because in the case of Windows, on the whole 1 license = 1 installation (although there may be multi-user installations with less clearly defined numbers of users). In the case of Linux, the number of packaged Linux distributions sold has little relationship to the installed base. Sales of packaged linux distributions may serve as a general indicator of its growing use, but can't be compared directly to Windows.

You cannot use both [Linux and Windows] at once.


You can, in fact. You can run an emulator such as VMWare on Linux and run Windows on that. It's not uncommon for developers to do so, either, although it probably has little influence on the server statistics.

Marc


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Wrong.. Jan 21, 2004

but not me, them!

They take some parts of a huge and wild free Linux source, add a manual and support service and make it look like their software package.

Have a look here:
http://www.linux.org/dist/index.html

We have to distinguish between the product and the surrounding services, like Microsoft does not get anything for the programs running on Windows.

[Edited at 2004-01-21 11:57]


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Sounds too nice to be true Jan 21, 2004

You cannot use both [Linux and Windows] at once.

You can, in fact. You can run an emulator such as VMWare on Linux and run Windows on that...


I would like to do so if I could run Trados, Déjà Vu, Word, Excel, Access and PowerPoint on this emulator. But as far as I know, there are still some things not working


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mrippa  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:39
English to Italian
They could be wrong but their distributions, along with Mandrake, are the most used ones. Jan 21, 2004

Harry_B wrote:
Wrong!
but not me, them!

They take some parts of a huge and wild free Linux source, add a manual and support service and make it look like their software package.

[Edited at 2004-01-21 11:57]


Le't stick to reality, are you trying to say that Sun Linux, Mandrake and Red Hat are marginal products?

This is from the useful Marc's tutorial
Linux for Translators Myths and FAQs
pupplished on the Proz site at
http://www.proz.com/howto/13


If you choose one of the more common distributions such as Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE, you are more likely to find a helping hand in an Internet forum to guide you through some tricky configuration problem than if you opt for a very obscure distribution which hardly anyone else uses.


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