| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Let's eliminate off-topic forums Thread poster: RHELLER
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two2tango 
Argentina
Local time: 06:24
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Small clarification | Jul 11, 2005 |
María Roberto wrote:
Perhaps Moderator´s rules must been reviewed? Or the logic of communications has to be explain?
Hi María, just a little clarification. There are no "Moderator´s rules". There are rules and definitions of scope (defined by site staff) that apply to all members, moderators included.
Regards,
Enrique
[Edited at 2005-07-11 14:22]
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 06:24
English to Spanish
+ ...
| It had to be you.... | Jul 11, 2005 |
Jack Doughty wrote:
I can't see why anyone would make this suggestion. There was a lot of debate about this years ago, as a result of which the present system was devised, whereby those who don't like off-topic topics can elect not to see them. Why don't you just do this?
What is the logic of saying you are tired of being censored, and going on to try to impose a total censorship on everyone else?
I couldn't agree more.
I also agree with Daniela's way of seeing things.
Au
| | | | RHELLER
United States
Local time: 03:24
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Be clear - Enforce all rules all the time | Jul 11, 2005 |
To Peter and Daniela,
Thank you so much for telling me that I lack good manners.
Let's be CLEAR here.
If I cannot say Happy 4th, then you cannot say merry/happy xmas.
or any other holiday that may seem appropriate to you.
| | | | Anabel Martínez
Spain
Local time: 11:24
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| I agree with some of this | Jul 11, 2005 |
Rita Heller wrote:
If I cannot say Happy 4th, then you cannot say merry/happy xmas.
or any other holiday that may seem appropriate to you.
Rita has a point here. I believe that one should be allowed to greet this kind of holidays, there's always time to close a thread if things go political and/or religious. I would refer here to that thread about what happened in London. And something similar happened with a Russian festivity. Nobody had gotten political there... My opinion is that, if I can say happy birthday to colleagues, I could also be able to greet some holidays. As far as I know, there were some threads greeting the National Day of Catalonia, and nobody thought we were being political.
Just my ideas. I believe people have enough manners to know when to stop, and for those who don't, then, we can act.
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RHELLER
United States
Local time: 03:24
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Arbitrary attitude | Jul 11, 2005 |
Anabel, I do not agree that a website with thousands of members (and many paying members) should be treated in such a way.
If there are rules they must be enforced in a predictable and reasonable manner. Arbitrary and random enforcement of rules is unfair to all.
| | | | sergey (X)
Local time: 10:24
Russian to English
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| more freedom on proz.com! | Jul 11, 2005 |
i had a number of eyebrow raising experiences myself on proz.com, when my postings wouldn't be allowed or other's postings published at first, then would be suddenly removed at a moderator's whim, it would appear.
i think we are all adults here and therefore in my opinion there should be greater margin for broader range of topics. in translation we often come across very controversial topics indeed.
i think the proz.com public should be given a chance to express their views on an iss... See more i had a number of eyebrow raising experiences myself on proz.com, when my postings wouldn't be allowed or other's postings published at first, then would be suddenly removed at a moderator's whim, it would appear.
i think we are all adults here and therefore in my opinion there should be greater margin for broader range of topics. in translation we often come across very controversial topics indeed.
i think the proz.com public should be given a chance to express their views on an issue before it's quashed by a moderator. what's wrong if something IS a bit controversial after all? everybody likes a bit of a scandal deep deep inside now and then.
let's stop pretending that we don't!
of course, when it gets really ugly that's when the moderators should step in (but NOT before that! - what is there to moderate if it hasn't been even allowed to happen!)
at present i would give proz.com a 'U' certificate which would make even children of 5 or 6 feel comfortable here. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anabel Martínez
Spain
Local time: 11:24
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| I guess not all holidays are perceived in the same way | Jul 11, 2005 |
In any case, I don't think off-topic forums should be deleted, but I believe they could be a bit more permissive, that is, closing a thread if it gets political or offensive.
Anyway, Rita, you should not take it as something personal. After all, this is a site for translation and if the "owners" have chosen to restrict the topics discussed in the forums, it has nothing to do with a person or with a specific holiday.
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 06:24
English to Spanish
+ ...
Rita Heller wrote:
To Peter and Daniela,
Thank you so much for telling me that I lack good manners.
I see we have different points of view here, but I don't see Peter or Daniela have suggested anything about your manners.
We have known you for quite a long time and do respect you in more than one sense. There may be a point in which we do not agree (which is not bad!). But this is not a personal issue, I don't think anybody is saying anything about your manners. I would never second that.
Aurora
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Will Matter
United States
Local time: 02:24
English
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| Actually, it has everything to do with a certain specific holiday | Jul 11, 2005 |
[quote]Anabel Martinez wrote: "it has nothing to do with a person or with a specific holiday". Actually, it does have something to do with a specific holiday. The entire controversy arose over the fact that certain members greeted each other, in a very "low key" way, regarding a certain holiday that I won't mention here and were subsequently censored. I don't perceive this holiday as being either religious or political but remarks, even whole posts, were ruthlessly eliminated. Since the criteria for deciding what is allowable and what is not appears to be highly subjective, not to mention rather controversial, we should solve the problem by eliminating the "off topic" Forum. Also, if not even mentioning the day that, indirectly, allowed this very site to be possible is allowed then I would prefer to see no other holidays be allowed either. None of them.
[Edited at 2005-07-11 22:22]
| | | | RHELLER
United States
Local time: 03:24
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I used to be a fan of the "off-topic" forum | Jul 11, 2005 |
Thank you Aurora for your kind remarks.
Your contributions to "off-topic" forums are fabulous and I admit it would be a shame to see those go.
However, as Will has stated, something must be changed in order to create a sense of fairness.
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 06:24
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Life is not black or white (things would be easier...there would be no lawyers, to start with :-)))) | Jul 11, 2005 |
Your contributions to "off-topic" forums are fabulous and I admit it would be a shame to see those go.
Rita
Well, I was planning to start a PhD on OffTopicsm after the many words I wrote in the Spanish forum with the offtopic affair. 101% of my fora are now off topic because they may start as on topic and a single sentence may make them become uhhh...off topic, and I don't want to see Borges (a great translator) off topiced (does this verb exist?) again because somebody complained of an extra smile, or a personal comment. So I cover my...thread and everything is off topic, just in case.
My experience (you may want to know that I am proz.com heaviest poster) says that many times a thread starts as a clearly off topic thread, and out of the blue, it becomes on topic (Rabassa appears, for example)...And the other way round (A posting on Newmark may include comments on the new baby of one of the prozians in the Spanish forum). Such is life (and is getting sucher and sucher!!!
And then there are the grey areas...which, from the very beginning are doubtful.
Also...even a talk about the new Barbie model in a translators' site may become a linguistic party, the translator insight will somehow inevitably appear. We see the world through the eyes of translation!!!
And here I am again! Completely off-topic. Sorry.
Here we are, screen-mates (that is what we are!), all brainstorming to make proz a better place. Each of us knows how much we profit from proz.com. Each of us knows how much proz.com means to us, how much we wish to put our brain, our time and our heart to make this a better place.
Au
[Edited at 2005-07-11 17:24]
| | | | | Holidays will be removed as an exception | Jul 11, 2005 |
OK, point taken. Holidays will be removed as a possible exception from the scope.
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| Controversy? Only if related to translation. | Jul 11, 2005 |
sergey wrote:
i had a number of eyebrow raising experiences myself on proz.com, when my postings wouldn't be allowed or other's postings published at first, then would be suddenly removed at a moderator's whim, it would appear...
I don't know which cases you are referring to, but my bet would be that your postings were removed in relation to the definition of scope, and not on a whim.
i think the proz.com public should be given a chance to express their views on an issue before it's quashed by a moderator. what's wrong if something IS a bit controversial after all? everybody likes a bit of a scandal deep deep inside now and then.
let's stop pretending that we don't!
If it is related to translation, sure, nothing wrong with a little controversy. If it is related to something else, we're saying it has no place here. We ask for your cooperation with this basic premise.
| | | | sarahl (X)
Local time: 02:24
English to French
+ ...
I am puzzled here...
Where are the politics -or the controversy for that matter- in a national holiday?
Similarly, where is the religion in Christmas? For many people, it's a family event.
I am confused, can someone explain?
| | | | two2tango
Argentina
Local time: 06:24
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Trying to explain | Jul 11, 2005 |
sarahl wrote:
I am puzzled here...
Where are the politics -or the controversy for that matter- in a national holiday?
Similarly, where is the religion in Christmas? For many people, it's a family event.
I am confused, can someone explain?
Some national holidays are highly controversial in certain parts of the world, some due to past history, some associated by many to colonialism, some relics of past conflicts, wars, annexions, atrocities, you name it...
Some religious celebration are controversial, as not everybody has the same level of tolerance to other people's beliefs. I remember a posting showing St. Jerome as translator generated so much controversy that it had to be hidden.
Now if you take the controversial national and religious holidays out of scope you find yourself in a slippery slope. Where do you put a limit? A simple and fair solution is to exclude from the site scope all national and religious celebrations.
This thread was useful to provide the feedback that the scope definition was not properly updated, now it will exclude all form of holiday greetings. I find this solution fair to all countries and beliefs.
Regards,
Enrique
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