| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Will move to Europe from South Africa. Are you happy in Europe? Thread poster: Vittorina Klingbeil (X)
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Seamus Moran
Ireland
Local time: 16:53
German to English
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I agree with what another commentator said about the weather in Ireland, although having lived in the UK there is not much difference and Germany, well that was freezing and i'm sure Norway is Arctic. If weather is an important factor, you should consider the South of Europe, maybe Portugal or Spain.
| | | | | Compare the educational systems | Aug 30, 2007 |
Hi,
I have a 14-year old son, and we are living in Germany.
If you want to come to Germany, have a close look at the educational system here and compare it to the other countries you are interested in.
What I can say about the schools in Germany: the classes are big, usually 30 pupils, and if your children do not speak German, this is your problem. Do not expect any help from the educational system, like special courses at school to learn the language or some kind of special su... See more Hi,
I have a 14-year old son, and we are living in Germany.
If you want to come to Germany, have a close look at the educational system here and compare it to the other countries you are interested in.
What I can say about the schools in Germany: the classes are big, usually 30 pupils, and if your children do not speak German, this is your problem. Do not expect any help from the educational system, like special courses at school to learn the language or some kind of special support. Especially, when the children are 11 and 14, this will be entirely up to you, so you will have to organize private teachers to help them learn the language.
Germany is suffering from the "Pisa" shock, and there have been loads of changes in the educational system made recently. But, honestly, I do not think things have really become better, rather worse.
For example, if your children will go to the "Gymnasium", the younger one will do the "Abitur" after 8 years at the Gymnasium (12 years of school altogether), while the older one (probably) will do it after 9 years, because the politicians recently decided to shorten the time pupils need to finish school. However, they did not reduce the stuff pupils have to learn, so it has become harder for the pupils, and they have to spent more time at school each day. But lots of schools are not prepared for that, so it is still not usual to offer lunch at school. This might change during the next years, though. The school my son visits just organized a lunch break this year and offers lunch in a cafeteria. Most other schools in Germany still do not have something like that. There are schools where mothers take turns in cooking something at home and bring it to school, so that the children can have a warm meal at school, when they have to stay there until 4pm.
Also, school starts very early in Germany, usually between 7.30 and 7.50.
Regarding the weather, the south of Germany (Baden-Württemberg and Bayern) really is the nicest place to live within Germany, because they have the most sunny days. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X) 
Spain
Local time: 17:53
Spanish to English
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Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
I think the most immediate problem you'll come up against is the climate - all the areas you mention are much more relentlessly cold and grey than SA. I know it gets cold in your part of SA too but in my (admittedly limited) experience the winters in that area are cold at night, and warm or hot, dry and sunny during the day - a totally different prospect to unending days of chilly grey drizzle, as is common in British winters (or even all year round!) at least.
[Edited at 2007-08-30 09:27]
Even though it may seem superficial, the fact is, once you get used to/if you are used to a good climate, it's very difficult to adapt to a poor climate.
You also need to consider how to experiment - very difficult I know. But just yesterday a friend who wanted to move to another country was telling me, after spending 3 weeks there investigating it, that she began to see things that turned her off the idea completely as far as this country was concerned.
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 18:53
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Helsinki was called the Athens of the North (without the smog) | Aug 30, 2007 |
Hilde Granlund wrote: But, as Paola also says - it depends where you are going. Helsinki is not really anything like Madrid or Athens, is it? 
I wonder what you mean with this smiley, Hilde. Have you ever been in Helsinki?
Cheers
Heinrich
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But I imagine Helsinki/Finland to be as cold as it is here (Norway). I was just trying to think of the furthest capital from Madrid, both distance and climate-wise.
I would love to visit Helsinki sometime - half my ancestors are Finnish, so certainly no offense intended.
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in Great Britain, you'll hate the weather. Although it's not that cold at all, it's the greyness which is a killer... Believe me, you'll be gasping for a little sun after a few weeks, especially if you are used to it.
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As a foreigner traveling from South America to Europe, it was a "whole new world"! Of course it is completely different if you go there as a tourist, which I did when visiting Italy, Belgium and Germany; that was lovely.
But then I moved with my Dutch husband to The Netherlands where we lived for two years and I hated it. For me, it was not a different country, it was a different planet! Everything was different: customs, language, religion, ideas, weather (freezing, rainy, grey!!!... See more As a foreigner traveling from South America to Europe, it was a "whole new world"! Of course it is completely different if you go there as a tourist, which I did when visiting Italy, Belgium and Germany; that was lovely.
But then I moved with my Dutch husband to The Netherlands where we lived for two years and I hated it. For me, it was not a different country, it was a different planet! Everything was different: customs, language, religion, ideas, weather (freezing, rainy, grey!!!), food, rules, etc., etc. I started getting desperate and missed lots my old life, so easy, warm and cozy in Peru, so we moved back.
I guess it has to do with the person him/herself and the country too. If you are an easy-going person you will have no problems adapting, but if not, you will probably suffer from some kind of "culture shock" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_shock).
Good luck!! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Latin_Hellas (X)
United States
Local time: 17:53
Italian to English
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| I've lived on three continents | Aug 30, 2007 |
I have lived in the US, Europe, and South America, all for significant periods of time. Maybe some of the comparisons will help.
In my view, the best of Europe is social peace and the quality of intellectual/cultural life. The worst of Europe is high taxation and bureaucracy.
The best of the United States is the tax system which truly encourages private business. The worst of the United States is the poor quality of cultural life, intellectual or otherwise (exce... See more I have lived in the US, Europe, and South America, all for significant periods of time. Maybe some of the comparisons will help.
In my view, the best of Europe is social peace and the quality of intellectual/cultural life. The worst of Europe is high taxation and bureaucracy.
The best of the United States is the tax system which truly encourages private business. The worst of the United States is the poor quality of cultural life, intellectual or otherwise (except for the business and technological culture), and the shamefully chaotic way the health care system is (mis)financed.
The cost of living, especially the purchase of a dwelling, is expensive on both continents, especially in and around the biggest cities with deep job markets and most desirable resort-type areas.
The best of South America is family life when the family is functional (mother-father-children, surrounded by extended family) and the cost of living is low. The challenge is to find a relatively prosperous low-crime city or town to live in. Communications technology is quite adequate is many places. The worst of South America is the oft-times corrupt ruling class that cripples the local population, one manifestation of which is the general lack of education among the population and what that implies about culture and professionalism in work, among other things.
In my view, Europe can be paradise if you are happy in your domestic relationship and you have enough wealth and income to maintain the residence of your choice, whether as owner or renter, and you can tolerate high taxation.
All the best in your plans! ▲ Collapse
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| International schools | Aug 30, 2007 |
Perhaps your best friend lives in Munich and you just don't know her yet!
I moved to Germany 13 years ago and I see it the positive way. There are so many nice and interesting people everywhere, you just have to find them.
There are international schools in Munich:
http://www.mrlodge.de/englisch/international_schools.htm
Good luck!
... See more Perhaps your best friend lives in Munich and you just don't know her yet!
I moved to Germany 13 years ago and I see it the positive way. There are so many nice and interesting people everywhere, you just have to find them.
There are international schools in Munich:
http://www.mrlodge.de/englisch/international_schools.htm
Good luck!
Edith ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Cutler
Spain
Local time: 17:53
Spanish to English
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| More thoughts on the weather | Aug 30, 2007 |
Lia Fail wrote:
Even though it may seem superficial, the fact is, once you get used to/if you are used to a good climate, it's very difficult to adapt to a poor climate.
I couldn't agree more, although my experience was just the opposite. I come from a state called Vermont in the north of the USA, which borders Canada. It's a place with winter temperatures of 20 below zero and snow up to your waist for months at a time.
I came to northeastern Spain with the idea of staying for a year but the climate won me over immediately. I thought I'd died and gone to Heaven when I experienced the sun and nearly year-round pleasant temperatures. That was 22 years ago and I wouldn't go back to living in a harsh climate if my life depended on it.
Now reverse what I've said. As Lia has mentioned, if you live in a place with a comfortable climate, you'll find the change to a cold, gray climate a real shock. It's something you have to live with everyday and it can really affect your mood if you're not used to it.
It's something you definitely want to take into consideration. If you really want to move from a pleasant climate to the north of Europe, you'll need a plan of how you'll handle it.
| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 10:53
English to Russian
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| Love-hate relationship | Aug 30, 2007 |
For the first 10 years in the US I missed European settings now and then and could not wait for my papers and enough money to go an visit places. To this day a retirement in the Northern Italian country is not only a dream but a reality - I have a tiny piece of property near Castelfranco, Veneto, which was bought on a spur of the moment and a tremendous excitement of that first trip. I love to visit and trot Europe, fell in love with Spain recently, always come back home with sore feet and legs ... See more For the first 10 years in the US I missed European settings now and then and could not wait for my papers and enough money to go an visit places. To this day a retirement in the Northern Italian country is not only a dream but a reality - I have a tiny piece of property near Castelfranco, Veneto, which was bought on a spur of the moment and a tremendous excitement of that first trip. I love to visit and trot Europe, fell in love with Spain recently, always come back home with sore feet and legs and dream of the next visit but...
I've realized that I will hardly be able to live there with the stores closing at 6 pm, municipal transportation for commuting, jammed living spaces, awful (sorry!) service for the most part (don't try to write it off to arrogant Americans:-):-):-), I witnessed it with locals, among other things), large cities getting dirty and overcrowded... I still love Europe to death and spend every extra nickel on traveling but I'm happy that I have to go back to my car, which symbolizes my freedom, and just my balcony larger than a couple of living rooms I have seen...
Do some comparison in these areas too. And yes, look south:-) for permanent place - I had a chance to compare first-hand as I was born and raised in St.-Petersburg, Russia. The brrrrrrrr climate but I love Netherlands nevertheless... especially Maastricht.
[Edited at 2007-08-30 16:39] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Climate matter | Aug 30, 2007 |
John Cutler wrote:
Now reverse what I've said. As Lia has mentioned, if you live in a place with a comfortable climate, you'll find the change to a cold, gray climate a real shock. It's something you have to live with everyday and it can really affect your mood if you're not used to it.
100% true. I am a Mediterranean, I thought I coud get used to any climate, but I was wrong. I was desperate when had to wear a coat in May in Poland or a jumper in England in June during the day. Not to mention the grey Parisian sky... Rain is the worst, however, much worse than snow.
All the Italians I've met who live in colder countries keep complaining. But you have a better organization and more job opportunities in some of the rainy countries - cant' have everything.
Paola
[Edited at 2007-08-30 16:11]
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Vittorina Klingbeil (X)
Germany
Local time: 17:53
Italian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Weather etc. | Aug 30, 2007 |
Thank you to all for the interesting comments.
I do come from a place of almost-year-round sunny weather, and it is scary to think how we will cope with weeks and weeks of grey! However, if it is a choice between your children, or indeed you, being able to walk down the road to a friend's house in the daytime in safety - and sunny days - hmmmm - I think I choose grey days!
In the end it's something I will have to experience for myself, but judging from most of the ans... See more Thank you to all for the interesting comments.
I do come from a place of almost-year-round sunny weather, and it is scary to think how we will cope with weeks and weeks of grey! However, if it is a choice between your children, or indeed you, being able to walk down the road to a friend's house in the daytime in safety - and sunny days - hmmmm - I think I choose grey days!
In the end it's something I will have to experience for myself, but judging from most of the answers, it is beginning to seem quite rosy (weather aside!!). Here, besides the constant threats to personal safety with which we all live, we also have high income tax (my family pays nearly 40%); we spend between a quarter and a third of our salaries on private schooling (this is a must for a good and safe education); the interest rate on housing bonds is at 13.5%, etc.
However, it is a huge step, which is why I appreciate all the feedback. Many thanks to Thomas and Katrin for the helpful info on Germany. Thanks to Debbie, I know you've been there! And to all the others too!
Sunny greetings!
Vittorina
[Edited at 2007-08-30 17:02] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Apple and Orange | Aug 31, 2007 |
Hi
I know the difficulty of making a pro-con table.
After a few item you drop into virtuality of your own plans and you may even not see pros and cons correctly.
I am Turkish in origin, lived in the US about 10 years and I am in the Netherlands since last 4 years.
Like another fellow translator said here if you have financial freedom, you may eliminate most of the barriers. For freelancers some countries may be better than some others. Certainly it is... See more Hi
I know the difficulty of making a pro-con table.
After a few item you drop into virtuality of your own plans and you may even not see pros and cons correctly.
I am Turkish in origin, lived in the US about 10 years and I am in the Netherlands since last 4 years.
Like another fellow translator said here if you have financial freedom, you may eliminate most of the barriers. For freelancers some countries may be better than some others. Certainly it is not the Netherlands. Dutch tax system does not see any difference between business-employment salary-freelance salary.
If you are planing to look for a job, and work etc you may chose the service sector. Other industries are not welcoming like before. If you dont speak enogh Dutch or German, this will be a strong negative to get a job.
On the other hand if you are planing to do business, invest into business etc you may be lucky! Just study your homework very good. The babyboomers are about to retire if not already retired, and there are thousands of operating/profitable businesses for sale in Germany and the Netherlands. I heard that only in the Netherlands 35000 mid size business are under danger of closing not because of profitability just because retirement of or more sadly death of the owners.
I would assume it may be more dramatical in Germany with greater manufacturing capacity and greater population.
It is very difficult for your older child to go into a public school because it will be difficult. There are international schools but then you receive a good amount of invoice.
An international school that I had visited has an annual tution fee of around €15K for primary school.
And finally if gourme is important to you with the 3 destination options that you have you will for sure miss other parts of the world especially if you happen to move into small cities.
Good luck
Nizam ▲ Collapse
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