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Language keyboard problem in MS Word
Thread poster: Kim Metzger

Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 05:07
German to English
Aug 11, 2005

I've been using MS Word 2002 to type my English translations over German texts for many years. A couple of weeks ago I started having trouble switching from one language to the other, and must have done something wrong. Now, when I get a German text I copy it and paste it into a new blank document. Then I select the entire text and set the language to US English, select default US English and OK.

But the keyboard keeps switching back to German while I'm working. In Set Language the box "Detect Language Automatically" is checked. Is that right?
Help appreciated.


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 13:07
English to German
+ ...
I am used to German keyboard Aug 11, 2005

my automatic finger articulation searches for the german keyboard layout. But that is yet another point. You may have to install german or english language support (character code) using your Windows installation CD and may or may not also reinstall MS-Word. I say may or may not, because the problem would most probably be corrected by installing the German or english keyboard layout, which ever is not loading using ALT+Shift keys. If your keyboard switches back to german keyboard would mean your basic (primary) key set is german, so you have to reinstall the english keys-layout. Best regards, Brandis

[Edited at 2005-08-11 16:16]


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 05:07
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Language selection problem Aug 11, 2005

Hi Brandis, I don't think I have to install anything. I had been using my current set-up successfully for several years until a couple of weeks ago when I started fooling around with settings. I must have checked or unchecked something incorrectly.

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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:07
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Deselect the auto language recognition Aug 11, 2005

Word checks the text and even if it is set to English, it can detect German, so it switches then to German.
Especially if you work with CAT you should switch this feature out.

Regards
Jerzy


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 13:07
English to German
+ ...
Not everything Aug 11, 2005

Kim Metzger wrote:

Hi Brandis, I don't think I have to install anything. I had been using my current set-up successfully for several years until a couple of weeks ago when I started fooling around with settings. I must have checked or unchecked something incorrectly.
Helo Kim, I didn´t say everything. Only the language options (active languages). When you insert the windows CD - you see various options, under which you can select Languages (other options or optional setup something like this)it should be under regional settings and language options. You can also go to your language toolbar and change the settings, once set the program will search for the CD / if the files are on the Hard disc, fine. Here you deselect current settings and reselect your languages and accordingly also the keyboard layout, namely in your case if I understand right eng( US keyboard and DE. Rest you know (there will be no restarting) ALT+Shift. Jerzy´s idea may also function, provided both keyboards are currently loaded and auto-select is shut off. Best Brandis

[Edited at 2005-08-11 17:40]


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PAS  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:07
English to Polish
+ ...
Confused Aug 11, 2005

Are we talking about the language of the Word document or the keyboard layout?
These are two different things AFAIK. You don't even need MS Word installed to switch between whatever keyboard layout you desire.
I'm sorry this doesn't contribute much to the problem, just need to clarify...

Pawel Skalinski


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 05:07
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Select language automatically Aug 11, 2005

PAS wrote:

Are we talking about the language of the Word document or the keyboard layout?
These are two different things AFAIK. You don't even need MS Word installed to switch between whatever keyboard layout you desire.

Pawel Skalinski


Dear Pawel, I am permanently confused when it comes to IT matters, so I seldom know how to choose the right terminology to define a problem. But I do know that Jerzy's solution worked like a charm. I deselected "detect language automatically" in set languages an voila! no more problems. Thanks everybody.



[Edited at 2005-08-11 17:58]


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PAS  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:07
English to Polish
+ ...
Right Aug 11, 2005

OK - Jerzy's right as always.
I wasn't sure, because my laptop once experienced a keyboard layout problem - the actual keyboard layout switched between English and Polish. Only rebooting helped.

My general rule is to turn off all the "helpful" thingies in Word I can find. With a few exceptions or iron control over your work, they are mostly a nuisance.

P.A.S.


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 13:07
English to German
+ ...
Language settings and PAS is right Aug 11, 2005

PAS wrote:

Are we talking about the language of the Word document or the keyboard layout?
These are two different things AFAIK. You don't even need MS Word installed to switch between whatever keyboard layout you desire.
I'm sorry this doesn't contribute much to the problem, just need to clarify...

Pawel Skalinski
If basic language settings (language option in the toolbar) are set they reflect in MS-Word automatically. And the language settings in MS-Word automatically demand loading of basic languages support in the basic installation (example - if you have installed English and German basically ) and choose to work in Japanese in Word, then you have to install Japanese keyboard and language settings also.Because what is not there cannot be used. Brandis


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:07
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
An attemption to clarify things Aug 11, 2005

We were talking here about language selection for BOTH Word AND keayboard.

When Word (97 and above, possibly 95 too) is running, it is per default set to automatically switch the keyboard to the language of the document. If you know that and set your documents allways to the needed language (what I allways advise, when it comes to Trados issues), then it is very convenient. Otherwise, if you let Word let controll over what you are doing by activating all nasty "helpers" (not all are nasty, but some), then you will encounter some problems.

When automatic language recognition is switched on, Word detects, that the document you are overwritting is still in the source language (and it does not matter, how muc you have allready done, it looks allways there, where the cursor is) and switches the keyboard to source language layout. To prevent Word from doing so simply deselect automatic language recognition, but don't forget to set your document to target language then. The best way to do so is to modify styles accordingly.

Therfore my advice to switch all automatic changes in Word, which you do not explicitly need. What is needed, is numbered lists and similar, what is totally nasty is automatic definition of styles according to your document. This makes most customer documents so bad formatted.

Regards
Jerzy


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PAS  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:07
English to Polish
+ ...
Straying a little Aug 11, 2005

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

We were talking here about language selection for BOTH Word AND keayboard.

When Word (97 and above, possibly 95 too) is running, it is per default set to automatically switch the keyboard to the language of the document.


That's interesting. I haven't used Word 97 in a long time now, but I don't recall this happening in MSO 2000 which I used for a loooong time...
The problem appeared with WinXP/MSO 2003 on my laptop, but never on my main computer (Win2K/MSO 2003).

Pawel


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 13:07
English to German
+ ...
Word 97 or 95 or 98 are all now prehistoric Aug 11, 2005

Now what of it. Brandis

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Peter Linton  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:07
Member (2002)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Setting a default language Aug 11, 2005

Kim Metzger's problem reminds me of a similar problem I have. Ever since I heard Jerzy's talk at the ProZ conference in Oxford a few months ago, I had been careful to select the correct language for my target textd (in my case UK English). I would also like that to be the default language.

I thought I could do that in the same menu option that Kim MEtzger used - "Language". So I select one or more languages (English (U.K. and German), and click on "Default" to set English (U.K.) as the default language. I leave "Detect language automatically" unchecked.

All this is stored in NORMAL.DOT, so I would expect that setting to remain in force. But no, next time I look, English (U.K.) has disappeared and been replaced by English (U.S.). Happens every time. Bizarre.

My only guess is that as I am receiving texts to translate from customers, the settings in their documents override my NORMAL.DOT.

Any suggestions ? What am I doing wrong?


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:07
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Please differ between new documents you create from scratch and documents comming from customers Aug 11, 2005

There should be nothing wrong with your settings or computer, Peter

The Normal.dot template affects ONLY new documents, created from scratch on your PC. This regards language settings, font, font size, pagination, margins and so on. BUT: the other settings, as autoswitching of keyboard, autoformating (all those nasty "gadgets" by M$) are stored there, so they affect then ALL documents you open.
However, language settings are document specific, ie you can write one document with multiple languages, and you will even be able to get the formatting right (well, let´s say for 20 languages or so, as I cannot imagine someone creating hundreds of different styles only to get different languages). So if you get a document from your amercian customer, the language will be EN US. When the documents comes from Taiwan, but is written in English, the language will be Chinese (Taiwan) with secondary language English.

It is not easy to explain all this here due to my limited possibilities to get the proper names of menus and so on in Word - my Word speaks German... Maybe we could discuss further within the next ProZ conference, but then with more time than during the Conference in Oxford? If then, how about a workshop on this? Would you like such idea?

Regards
Jerzy


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Peter Linton  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:07
Member (2002)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Workshop Aug 12, 2005

Yes, Jerzy, a workshop is a good idea, there is a clear need for advice and information in this whole area. Let's do it!

Yours more or less normally,
Peter


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