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A question concerning Word, Trados and DTP
Thread poster: Fabio Descalzi

Fabio Descalzi  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 17:23
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 30, 2007

Hi everybody

I am facing the following issue. Maybe I should have posted this at the SDL Trados forum - it is 55% about Word, and 45% about Trados. But OK, there we go.

I have a 70,000-word software manual with indexes, illustrations, tables and internal links. Remembering previous experiences of processing such a complex DOC file directly with TRADOS, in which the document permanently re-paginated in every segment (experiences that were rather disappointing) I opted to open the "complex DOC", copy and paste the text without format in a separate "plain DOC", process the translation / edition / proofreading with TRADOS, and now, here I am, about to take a decision concerning the final delivery - what to do with the "complex DOC".

For the sake of not having surprises, I think I prefer to copy and paste sentence by sentence. It might be time-consuming, but... the other way out (apply TRADOS and then cleanup) might be terribly stressing. Why, will you ask? Let me tell you.

Say, the original document has 100 illustrations with the corresponding legend, for instance "Abb. 5: Erklärung des Beispiels" in the original, which should read "Fig. 5: Explicación del ejemplo" in the Spanish target text. There, the number 5 is actually a field code with the format {SEQ Abb.}.
If I work with TRADOS directly on that document, the whole sequence of illustration numbers is distorted. When updating the illustration index, the original 1, 2, 3, ... 100 become 2, 4, 6, ... 200.

A similar story with the tables: the German originals read "Tabelle 7: Überraschungen" and the Spanish target texts "Tabla 7: Sorpresas".
And don't name the internal links, please!

If I were to apply TRADOS to the "complex DOC", it would be, as said, very time-consuming and stressing because for every segment the DOC re-paginates.
Or: if I go to the Workbenck and use "Tools > Translate" and then "Tools >Cleanup", the "complex DOC" gets translated OK... except for the illustration numbers, that are all wrong. So I must go illustration by illustration, modifying and updating one by one those field codes.

On the contrary, if I do this work by simply copying and pasting, the only extra thing I have to do at the end is: keep the words "Abb." and "Tabelle" untranslated, update the indexes (3 of them in total), and then replace the words "Abb." and "Tabelle" by the corresponding Spanish translations "Fig." and "Tabla".

Suggestions? Experience with this? All welcome!!!


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itla  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:23
German to English
+ ...
Try two tools Dec 30, 2007

Hi Fabio.

If you're willing to experiment, download FCO and S&R from www.itla.ch/t4t/
Send me your product ID and I will give you free unlock codes for both tools.

Next, select your 70k Word document as the Parent AND as the Child in FCO. Activate "Create table glossary".
You can then translate your entire document in a Word table, then use T4T-S&R to overwrite your source-language with your target language. You have to convert the table into a tab-separated glossary first, but that's no problem. Just use Table > Convert > Table to text.

By the way, we're working on a tool that splits any Word document down into logical strings that respect abbreviations and creates a raw glossary.

Kind regards,
Erich


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 22:23
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Tageditor? Dec 30, 2007

Why don't you use Trados' Tageditor? Most problems with complex doc-files are avoided. But I have never had any problem translating docs with Wordfast, except maybe textboxes, which must be translated seperately. But TE is quite good. You could also try SDLX or DV.
Someone said 2007 was the last year of Word as a translation tool environment. The industry is moving away from MS Word.
Cheers
Heinrich


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Elvana Moore  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:23
Member
English to Albanian
+ ...
Tageditor Dec 30, 2007

Hi everyone,

Tageditor seems to be more suitable for large and complicated documents. I find myself using tageditor more nowdays, following a suggestion for a collegue.


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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 17:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
Off topic: Bold words! Dec 30, 2007

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
The industry is moving away from MS Word.


Heinrich, do you have any credible evidence to support that statement?

MediaMatrix


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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 17:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
Use Word functionality...? Dec 30, 2007

I don't use any CATs, so I'm not even sure I really understand the problem here - except that the cat seems somewhat lacking in discipline if it can't be trusted to handle a 70,000 word document properly.

Whenever possible, I obtain from the client a copy of the template they used when typing the source document - and failing that (which is usually the case 'cos most clients don't even know what a template is... ) I make a template from the source document itself. I then adapt this to the target language (usually just changing the language, but sometimes adapting the font size/line spacing also, to help maintain the same page layout despite the different sentence lengths), and then apply this template to the target document, preferably while typing the translation although it can be applied paragraph by paragraph after typing the translation by the kilometer.

If - repeat, IF - the templates (source and target) have been set up and applied correctly, the autonumbers will come out as they should.

All this assumes, of course, that the source text was actually typed using a properly-designed template in the first place.

MediaMatrix


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 22:23
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Only few tools rely on Word anymore Dec 31, 2007

mediamatrix wrote:

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
The industry is moving away from MS Word.


Heinrich, do you have any credible evidence to support that statement?

MediaMatrix


I cited the opinion of Jost Zetschke, expressed in his last newsletter. According to Jost even Wordfast will next year move away from MS Word, so will MetaTexis. Most tools already use own editor-modules for translation, Wordfast and Metatexis being the last "dinosaurs".

But yes, Tageditor is the tool of choice for complex Word-files.

Regards
Heinrich


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 21:23
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
It depends on the purpose Dec 31, 2007

In a way, a "CAT environment" integrated directly into Word was an interesting idea (psychologically, it can presuade some people to use CAT tools even if they would be shied away by more complicated environments of other tools) and it works for "smooth" Word files. I only use it for translating books of fiction now, in which the only formatting is italics now and then - for those it works fine.

I have tried to briefly put down pros and cons of either variant (MS Word plus TWB versus TagEditor)

http://public.otahal.biz/MSW_vs_TE.pdf

- perhaps my colleagues will feel like comenting on this small table?

Antonin


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