Szukam programu MT dla tlumaczen PL>RU
Thread poster: Oleg Prots

Oleg Prots  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 03:55
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
Mar 24, 2004

Please excuse my English here but I would need to spend half a night tryng to spell all words correctly...

Przepraszam za angielski tutaj, ale chyba przez polnocy musialbym sprawdzac czy wszystko dobrze napisalem...

I am looking for a downloadable MT tool able to "translate" Polish texts into Russian (Ukrainian or English are also acceptable). This is a request from a friend of mine, who is not a translator, but has to read a lot in Polish lately. He is convinced that such a tool would help him grasp the basic meaning of the text...
I would be grateful for any suggestions, although, unfortunately, PARS/P with license cost of $120 is not an option.

===
Dziekuje bardzo i pozdrawiam ze Lwowa,
Oleg


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:55
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Try SDLX Mar 24, 2004

It works as demo with all options (no restriction whatsoever) for 30 days.
You can download it from http://www.sdlintl.com/products-home/products/sdlx/products-downloads-sdlx.htm

Good luck
Jerzy


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Oleg Prots  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 03:55
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dziekuje, Jerzy, ale... Mar 24, 2004

Mam SDLX i bardzo mi sie podoba. Ale kolega nie szuka CATa, tylko programu MT...

Czy moze sa jakies dodatki do SDLXa o ktorych nie wiem?


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:55
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Not that I know Mar 24, 2004

And to be honest, MT for a Slavic language?
Even good CAT has it´s problems with "Kowalski/Kowalska" or "red wire" vs "red brick" or similar...
How could MT handle this?

Sorry, I cannot be of any help on this, as I do not know any machine translation tools.

Regards
Jerzy


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Andrzej Lejman  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:55
German to Polish
+ ...
Forget it Mar 24, 2004

Nawet, jeśli byłby taki program, wyniki będą katastrofalne; w innych zestawieniach językowych często były powodem wesołości na tym forum. Spotyka się nieraz witryny internetowe tak tłumaczone, jest też na przykład tłumaczenie EN>DE w guglu. Można tym przetłumaczyć od biedy pojednyncze, proste zdania, nic więcej.
Na przykład www.ectaco.pl tłumaczy tak:

Ala ma kota ==> Has cat Ala.

A cokolwiek bardziej złożonego?
To właśnie dlatego ciągle mamy nadzieję, że nie zabraknie nam pracy...

Andrzej


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Andrzej Mierzejewski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 02:55
Polish to English
+ ...
my opinion Mar 24, 2004

I'm afraid there is no such software as IMO Polish, Russian and other Slavonic languages are too difficult for machine translation.
And I hope there will never be any. Otherwise, how would you earn your money if a machine could replace you ?

[Edited at 2004-03-24 13:11]


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:55
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
machine translation and noun compounds Dec 11, 2004

Jerzy Czopik wrote:
And to be honest, MT for a Slavic language?


Yes, it has been done with good results in the past. See:
ALLEN, Jeffrey and Christopher HOGAN. 1998. Expanding lexical coverage of parallel corpora for the Example-Based Machine Translation approach. In Proceedings of the First International Language Resources and Evaluation Conference (LREC98), 28-30 May 1998, Granada, Spain. Vol. 2, pp. 747-754.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/chogan/Web/lre98.zip


Jerzy Czopik wrote:
Even good CAT has it´s problems with "Kowalski/Kowalska" or "red wire" vs "red brick" or similar...
How could MT handle this?


The example of "red wire" vs "red brick" in a Translation Memory (TM)-type system is usually handled by 1) examples, and 2) contextual distance statistics. This can be a limitation of such systems.

Rule-based (RB) and Knowledge-based (KB) MT systems automatically handle such combinations based on part of speech combinations.

Variant forms of words can be handled by the alternative form feature in current MT desktop software programs:
http://www.multilingual.com/allen50.htm

MT systems have more difficulty with identifying part of speech in a short phrase or sentence for items that have multiple parts of speech, such as:
"Handle with care" (is it "(you should) handle with care" or "(a) handle with care".

To a human, the answer is obvious.

Also, MT systems have difficulty with multi-word noun compounds that are not already in the dictionary. Examples of noun compounds:
"town hall"
"noun compound"
"machine translation"
"blade lever"
"paper cutter"
"electronic speed switch"
etc....

Yet, when non-native speaking end-users of manuals are required to read 5+ word noun compounds (very common in mechanical and electronic fields), it results in a similar problem. This was one of the main reasons for implementing MT systems (and reworking technical writing style guidelines for translation) in corporate environments during the past 15 years.


These types of issues are described in:

Jeffrey Allen: 2004. Case Study: Implementing MT for the Translation of Pre-sales Marketing and Post-sales Software Deployment Documentation at Mycom International. pp 1-6. In Robert E. Frederking, Kathryn Taylor (Eds.): Machine Translation: From Real Users to Research, 6th Conference of the Association for Machine Translation in the Americas, AMTA 2004, Washington, DC, USA, September 28-October 2, 2004, Proceedings. Lecture Notes in Computer Science 3265 Springer 2004, ISBN 3-540-23300-8
http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/conf/amta/amta2004.html#Allen04

Revised version of submitted article at:
http://www.geocities.com/mtpostediting/Jeff-Allen-AMTA2004-paper_v1.01.pdf

and also in my new article providing a step-by-step procedure on terminology identification and dictionary coding for MT tools. In the "Guide to Translation" supplement of MultiLingual Computing & Technology, January/February 2005.

https://216.18.156.115/multilingual/downloads/screenSupp69.pdf
(Screen optimized)
2-3 Mb

https://216.18.156.115/multilingual/downloads/printSupp69.pdf
(Print optimized)
25-30 Mb


Hope that helps.

Jeff
http://www.geocities.com/jeffallenpubs/localization.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mtpostediting/


[Edited at 2004-12-29 13:20]

[Edited at 2004-12-30 11:21]


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:55
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
Machine translation not to replace translators Dec 11, 2004

Andrzej Mierzejewski wrote:
I'm afraid there is no such software as IMO Polish, Russian and other Slavonic languages are too difficult for machine translation.
And I hope there will never be any. Otherwise, how would you earn your money if a machine could replace you ?


The focus of Machine Translation desktop software and implementations over the past 15 years has been as a computer-aided translation tool and decision-making software program, not just as a simple human translator replacement strategy. I've written a lot on this topic. See my MT postediting page (http://www.geocities.com/mtpostediting/) and my localization page (http://www.geocities.com/jeffallenpubs/localization.htm), notably the thread topics about "misconceptions about MT".


Jeff
http://www.geocities.com/jeffallenpubs/


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Andrzej Mierzejewski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 02:55
Polish to English
+ ...
Machine translation not to replace translators, I hope. Dec 13, 2004

Jeff,
thanks for your input. I promise to read.

On the other hand: there is a very basic Polish sentence "Ala ma kota". This means: The girl named Ala has a cat. As long as Babylon translates this into English as "Has cat Ala", I can work (and sleep) with no fear.

Best regards
Andrzej Mierzejewski


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:55
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
the order of reading MT materials at Jeff's site Dec 13, 2004

Andrzej Mierzejewski wrote:
Jeff,
thanks for your input. I promise to read.


Anrezej,

I sugget that you first read the following Proz threads which can help guide you in what to read further at my publications portal.

http://www.proz.com/post/174713#174713

http://www.proz.com/post/190126#190126

http://www.proz.com/post/189873#189873

http://www.proz.com/post/184880#184880

http://www.proz.com/post/181287#181287

http://www.proz.com/post/177832#177832

http://www.proz.com/post/174729#174729

Jeff
http://www.geocities.com/jeffallenpubs/
http://www.geocities.com/mtpostediting/



[Edited at 2004-12-29 13:15]


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