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Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
Poll: Do you apply discounts for 100% matches repetitions and fuzzy matches?
ProZ.com Staff
Local time: 05:47
SITE STAFF
Nov 14, 2011

This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you apply discounts for 100% matches repetitions and fuzzy matches?".

This poll was originally submitted by Alexey Ivanov. View the poll results »



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Mary Worby  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:47
Member
German to English
+ ...
Yes Nov 14, 2011

I apply a discount for internal repetitions within a text or matches provided within a customer TM. There are no discounts on matches from my own translation memory.

Essentially, there's a discount if someone else has already done the work, but not if I have!

Sometimes if there is a huge amount of internal repetition (in excess of 50 %, say) within a document I will offer a discount to the customer. I have found that honesty in this respect pays off, as it does in most other respects too!


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Simon Bruni  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:47
Member (2009)
Spanish to English
Not for fuzzy matches Nov 14, 2011

I will consider a 50 % discount for 100 % matches or repetitions, if I must. Never for fuzzy matches, which can potentially create more work than no matches. I find the sliding scale of discounts for fuzzy matches distastefully penny pinching and indicative of the wrong sort of agency.

[Edited at 2011-11-14 08:25 GMT]


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David Wright  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 14:47
German to English
+ ...
Other Nov 14, 2011

I don't use Trados or the like unless my arm is twisted by client, and then we negotiate the position.

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patriciacharnet  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:47
Member (2009)
English to French
+ ...
same here Nov 14, 2011


David Wright wrote:

I don't use Trados or the like unless my arm is twisted by client, and then we negotiate the position.


same here

trados is virtually useless for Legal and Medical documents - after translating for so long, it's very rare that there are any repeats - always different. Trados was not so useful so far for me

[Edited at 2011-11-14 09:12 GMT]


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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 14:47
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
No Nov 14, 2011

Not if I can help it. My rates are low enough for the quality of service I provide, going by the amount of sub-standard dross I see out there every day.

I may come to agreements with clients occasionally for volume discounts, or where the nature and amount of the repetition/s make the task absurdly easy, but as one colleague already noted, I am not for having my arm twisted. In the end I decide whether I allow discounts or not - even sometimes without being asked - but will not usually be browbeaten into it by the client.


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Muriel Vasconcellos  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:47
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
No - I decline such requests Nov 14, 2011

My limited experience with Trados and any kind of matches, fuzzy or otherwise, has shown me that the same word or phrase can be translated differently in another context, AND it's often desirable to alternate the translation with a synonym or paraphrase to avoid repeating it in close proximity.

What was originally intended as an optional aid for translators to speed up their work (I am very familiar with the early history of CAT tools) has been turned into a mechanism for lowering compensation not only for individuals but across the market.


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Katharine Ridgard  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:47
Member (2011)
French to English
+ ...
Yes, when requested Nov 14, 2011

I translate a lot of fashion catalogues using a TM provided by the client. There may be as many as a dozen slight variations of one product description, where I only have to change the colour/size/material type, etc. I'm happy to apply a discount in these situations. However, I've noticed "EUR 0,00" creeping in for context matches, which I'm not so keen on!

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Teresa Borges
Belgium
Local time: 14:47
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Same here Nov 14, 2011


Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:

My limited experience with Trados and any kind of matches, fuzzy or otherwise, has shown me that the same word or phrase can be translated differently in another context, AND it's often desirable to alternate the translation with a synonym or paraphrase to avoid repeating it in close proximity.

What was originally intended as an optional aid for translators to speed up their work (I am very familiar with the early history of CAT tools) has been turned into a mechanism for lowering compensation not only for individuals but across the market.


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Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:47
Hebrew to English
I don't worship at the altar of Trados = No Nov 14, 2011


Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:

My limited experience with Trados and any kind of matches, fuzzy or otherwise, has shown me that the same word or phrase can be translated differently in another context, AND it's often desirable to alternate the translation with a synonym or paraphrase to avoid repeating it in close proximity.

What was originally intended as an optional aid for translators to speed up their work (I am very familiar with the early history of CAT tools) has been turned into a mechanism for lowering compensation not only for individuals but across the market.


I agree completely. Especially with my language pair and the disparity between lexicon size. Hebrew has a relatively small vocabulary when compared with English. Consequently, the same Hebrew word/phrase often has multiple English translation possibilities. Even 100% match would have to be painstakingly reviewed. In short, it doesn't save me time, if anything, it drags it out.

And I agree that - more often than not, it is actually desirable to alternate usage/synonyms/near synonyms etc so that the translation isn't highly repetitive.

To reference my language pair again - Hebrew is a language which tolerates more repetition than English. There's no way possible I could rest on my laurels and think to myself "Oh, I've translated X as X a dozen times before, therefore it doesn't require as much attention" and I'll charge less for it. Maybe I just have OCD, but this doesn't work for me.

Presuming I sold my soul and started working like this, I'd still be disinclined to give discounts. Especially on the premise of these being "industry standard", which is as much a myth as the boogeyman.


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 10:47
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
No-brainer repetitions, YES; anything else, NO! ... if over 5K words Nov 14, 2011

Some translation jobs involve a significant amount of structural repetitions. A few examples:
  • A colection of filled-in 'forms' (such as MSDS, spec sheets, tables, analysis reports, etc.)
  • Parts lists or instruction manuals for various models of similar equipment
  • Training programs where the leader's manual often repeats verbatim the entire participants' workbook and handouts

If the job involves more than 5,000 words, allows the use of WordFast, and I'm paid my normal rate, I simply give repeated segments (Alt+Down) completely free of charge.

I've taken some large parts-list-type jobs where repetitions exceeded 70%, and they were still quite profitable, once the initial set of major segments had been translated. On the other hand, fuzzy matches require me to double my attention, to spot the difference between e.g. You must... (long phrase) and You must never... (long phrase), and verify that indeed I spotted it. Hence I see no point in giving any discounts on fuzzy matches.

It is my pleasure to hand all "MUST have Trados!!!" clients on a solid sterling silver platter to my colleagues/competitors who have it. This large platter was cheaper than the program, and keeping it polished is less troublesome than using Trados.

The 5,000 words threshold sets the limit below which the volume of segments to be translated won't pay for the Alt-Down-ing of a significant volume of repetitions. Of course, I won't quibble if the word count is only, say, 4,775.


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Michaël Temmerman  Identity Verified
Costa Rica
Local time: 06:47
English to Dutch
+ ...
depends Nov 14, 2011

It depends on the client. I usually only give a discount for repetitions and 100% matches, not for fuzzy matches. Clients' TM's are usually not all that great anyway, so it takes a lot of time to correct mistakes.

CAT tools are supposed to help the translators work more efficiently and better. It is an investment for a translator and just like any other business investment, one should be able to get more out of it than what it cost. I think many translators and agencies tend to forget this tiny detail...


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Venkatesh Sundaram  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 18:17
Member
German to English
José has said almost all there's to be said Nov 14, 2011

José has said almost all there's to be said on this topic. I agree.


José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

Some translation jobs involve a significant amount of structural repetitions. A few examples:
  • A colection of filled-in 'forms' (such as MSDS, spec sheets, tables, analysis reports, etc.)
  • Parts lists or instruction manuals for various models of similar equipment
  • Training programs where the leader's manual often repeats verbatim the entire participants' workbook and handouts

If the job involves more than 5,000 words, allows the use of WordFast, and I'm paid my normal rate, I simply give repeated segments (Alt+Down) completely free of charge.

I've taken some large parts-list-type jobs where repetitions exceeded 70%, and they were still quite profitable, once the initial set of major segments had been translated. On the other hand, fuzzy matches require me to double my attention, to spot the difference between e.g. You must... (long phrase) and You must never... (long phrase), and verify that indeed I spotted it. Hence I see no point in giving any discounts on fuzzy matches.

It is my pleasure to hand all "MUST have Trados!!!" clients on a solid sterling silver platter to my colleagues/competitors who have it. This large platter was cheaper than the program, and keeping it polished is less troublesome than using Trados.

The 5,000 words threshold sets the limit below which the volume of segments to be translated won't pay for the Alt-Down-ing of a significant volume of repetitions. Of course, I won't quibble if the word count is only, say, 4,775.


Muriel Vasconcellos has also made a valid point - a tool that was supposed to help translators is actually being used to drive rates down

[Edited at 2011-11-14 14:21 GMT]


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Michael Harris  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:47
Member (2006)
German to English
100% all the way Nov 14, 2011


Mary Worby wrote:

I apply a discount for internal repetitions within a text or matches provided within a customer TM. There are no discounts on matches from my own translation memory.

Essentially, there's a discount if someone else has already done the work, but not if I have!

Sometimes if there is a huge amount of internal repetition (in excess of 50 %, say) within a document I will offer a discount to the customer. I have found that honesty in this respect pays off, as it does in most other respects too!


Same here, especially in the technical field


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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 14:47
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Nicely summed up Nov 14, 2011


Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:

... the same word or phrase can be translated differently in another context, AND it's often desirable to alternate the translation with a synonym or paraphrase to avoid repeating it in close proximity.

What was originally intended as an optional aid for translators to speed up their work (I am very familiar with the early history of CAT tools) has been turned into a mechanism for lowering compensation not only for individuals but across the market.


My thoughts exactly! I just wish I could express it so neatly myself without it turning into an irate rant. It's good to know there is a broad consensus among colleagues on these issues.


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