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Poll: Do you work on Sundays?
Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
ProZ.com Staff
Local time: 02:19
SITE STAFF
Jan 15, 2006

This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you work on Sundays?".

This poll was originally submitted by Patricia Torres

View the poll here

A forum topic will appear each time a new poll is run. For more information, see: http://proz.com/topic/33629


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JaneTranslates  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 05:19
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Results will be slanted Jan 15, 2006

Results for this poll will be slanted because it is being run on a Sunday (in my part of the world, anyway). Those who don't work on Sundays may not even turn on their computers and thus will be blissfully unaware until too late to answer.

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Francisco Bolaños  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:19
English to Spanish
+ ...
Well... Jan 15, 2006

I have turned on my computer... and I have finished a project today (but I must say I also woke up later, of course).
However, I also think the results might be slanted, as depending on translator's religion, sunday can be weekday. I still have 3:30 hours of sunday, I'll try to enjoy them ¡Saludos!


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Ricki Farn
Germany
Local time: 11:19
Member (2005)
English to German
Another slant Jan 16, 2006

I work on Sundays because the shops are closed on Sundays in Germany, bus service is reduced, etc, so there just isn't much else to do. Any other day is better to take time off than on a Sunday. If I lived in Brussels, I sure wouldn't work on Sundays so we'll have a slant by such national differences in opening-hours laws as well.

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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:19
English to German
+ ...
I work a lot on Sundays Jan 16, 2006

I have clients below the equator and beyond the date line. When it is Sunday here in the US, it is Monday over there and the guys are rested and up to lots of activities.

Sunday? Not a chance.

If I would have kids, though, I would insist on family time.


One more thing: the phone keeps quiet. Aah!

[Edited at 2006-01-16 04:49]


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Stephen Rifkind  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 12:19
Member (2004)
French to English
+ ...
Kids Jan 16, 2006

To relate what Nicole said,

Here on Saturday, the local version of Sunday in Israel, I often work, but always allocate at least 4-5 morning-afternoon hours to my daughter. There are always enough hours early morning/late evening to make up for the slack. I think that the dedicated family time is a must, even if it is not always a whole day. After all, for whom are we working?

Stephen Rifkind

[Edited at 2006-01-16 05:20]


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Henk Peelen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:19
Member (2002)
German to Dutch
+ ...
Never do Jan 16, 2006

I think one day free out of seven is one of the many divine rules God gave to guide mankind to an as much as possible regular and happy live, leaving a quaranteed room for divine inspiration, worship, relations, relaxation, spiritual sanity and so on. Many people call Sunday for that reason sabbath. Maybe it should be the Saturday, but whatever the case, in my country for most people Sunday plays that role. For other people, Friday might play that role, namely in Islam.
At first glance it might seem ridiculous to keep exactly one day a week (and closer determined the Sunday from 00:00 til 23:59) free from working, spending money, hobbies like car washing, bricklaying, whitwashing the ceiling and so on, but on second thought it makes more sense than you might think, in my opinion.
First of all, many people consider it a divine rule, applying for all ages and all people.
An old Chinese saying is said to run "who works with a machine, starts behaving like a machine". The 24x7 society might at first glance seem highly paying, but on second thoughts it might both financially and socially appear to be devouring, because it it is said to result in many illnesses, unhappiness, divorces and kind of things.
First of all because stinginess might be the mainspring, which places matter above mind. Related to this, people forget the refreshing nature of this free day.
How could you, for instance, ask a factoryowner ot give up his desired 7x3 shifts system (which gives at first glance maximal production with minimal assets) for a socially more benefitting 6 x 2 shifts system which asks about 55% more assets if you're not able to find other production boosting ways, if on you Sunday work your walk your legs off to make your property as shiny as possible and your one-man business as prosporous as possible? I guess this rehtorical question clearly shows the socializing nature of the in my opinion divine one-day-free rule.


Next tot that, surveys are said to show that people who work purposive with a regular yet realistic schedule produce probably more than people working "always".

[Edited at 2006-01-16 22:29]


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Stefan Kopp
Malaysia
Local time: 16:19
English to German
Whats so special about Sundays Jan 18, 2006

Well, I am wondering, what is so special about this day? Is it becauso the Christian God rested? I take my day off whenever I feel like, thats one of the reasons for beeing a freelance translator, isnt it? I dont see any reason not to work on Sunday, besides being totally inside the system because of children who have to go to school etc.

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Henk Peelen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:19
Member (2002)
German to Dutch
+ ...
E=mc2 Jan 25, 2006

In my opinion, there's only one God. Because God is eternal, we don't understand Him fully.
Before there was neither earth or oher matter nor time, there was only God, spiritual energy. Then ... it happens
1) God created matter. Now there's matter, but neither space nor time.
2) God spread the matter. Now there's matter and space, but no time.
3) God let the spreaded matter (mostly planets) move in relation to each other. Now there's matter, space and time for those who are inside this system, named universe.

E = mc2 implies:
E = f[m, l, t] implies:
Energy is a function of mass, distance and time; implies:
mass, distance and time are representation of energy


Although God ceated this universe out of Himself, He's still sceptred (bible: "God won't get poor when giving neither rich when receiving" and "no living creature could see God").

In my opinion God presented Himself in the bible (other people might have other ideas), because He wanted the people to know enough of Him to live in a peacefull relation with God and to understand enough to live a bearable life.
I think the universe is about 100.000 years old and created with natural radiation, coal layers and so on to let people have alternatives to consider ... and to make the right choice. Evolution theory makes no sense for me, because the successive inflate & contraction cycli leave the question of the origin of the universe unanswered. It's only acceptable if you want to actually shelve the question and tell a tale to satisfy 99.9 of the audience. Monkey see, monkey do.
So, unless the song the Darwin choir likes to sing, people are basically all the same, although climate resulted in some differences in the way they approach life. People living in areas with big climate differences are more interested in long term thinking because in summer you need to prepare for winter.
One day out of seven free to rest and come to your senses lowers the risk of getting overheated. The same day of the week for everybody boosts the contact with God, the general rest and reflecting effects and the enjoyment of life and basic sympathy for every other human being. Everybody having his own day off results in less rest and reflecting effects and the less fortunated people having no day off at all.
Lot of freedom in countries where commercial activity is Sunday (or sabbath) is lower than on the other days, even to regard yourself a kind of monkey or accidently improved frogspawn.

[Edited at 2006-01-26 06:20]


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Olga B  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 12:19
English to Russian
+ ...
The same with me Mar 30, 2006

Stephen Rifkind wrote:

To relate what Nicole said,

Here on Saturday, the local version of Sunday in Israel, I often work, but always allocate at least 4-5 morning-afternoon hours to my daughter. There are always enough hours early morning/late evening to make up for the slack. I think that the dedicated family time is a must, even if it is not always a whole day. After all, for whom are we working?

Stephen Rifkind

[Edited at 2006-01-16 05:20]


I'm also from Israel. I agree with every word of yours.

[Edited at 2006-03-30 21:13]


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Dyran Altenburg  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:19
English to Spanish
+ ...
Site Rules Mar 30, 2006


Henk Peelen wrote:
In my opinion, there's only one God. Because God is eternal, we don't understand Him fully
/quote]

Religious indoctrination on Proz?

Big no-no:

http://www.proz.com/post/292250#292250


Policy on political, religious and controversial content

ProZ.com has a strict policy against political, religious and otherwise controversial content. Content that is in violation of this policy should not be vetted by moderators. If visible, content in violation of this policy should be removed promptly whenever encountered.

Excerpt from Forum Rules:
Rule 10. No politics

Posting content that is political, religious, or otherwise controversial in nature, or that may be considered offensive by other members, is not allowed. Such postings will be removed without regard to the views expressed.

Excerpt from Site FAQ:
Why are political and controversial topics banned?

It is the hope of the site founder that no matter what were to happen in the "real" world, we would still have a virtual zone here at ProZ.com in which people of many cultures--and conflicting views--can work together on language, in peace.

Therefore, it has always been the site's policy to *immediately* remove any posting that is not related to language and *has any chance* of being controversial. Site and forum moderators have been asked to do the same.


--
Dyran

[Edited at 2006-03-30 23:17]


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Henk Peelen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:19
Member (2002)
German to Dutch
+ ...
LOL Apr 12, 2006

Dyran Altenburg wrote:


Henk Peelen wrote:
In my opinion, there's only one God. Because God is eternal, we don't understand Him fully
/quote]

Religious indoctrination on Proz?

Big no-no:

http://www.proz.com/post/292250#292250


You made my day!
I was looking in the "Poll Discussion" sector to write a posting for the yesterday Poll, and saw this one was extended recently.

I think a indoctrinating person hardly ever starts his / her indoctrinating paper with "In my opinion ...", because his / her aim is to present things he wants other people to obey to instead of he / she himself / herself. The topic was "do you work on Sundays" and a colleague wondered what was special about Sundays and in my opinion suggested christians had a god that was just one of a lot of gods. Not offending to me, but in my opinion it clearly reflects an opinion and a question that was more than rhetorical. I think those christians have right and plight to answer this question. Plight in the meaning of duty: when someone asks me interestedly why I do(n't do) so-and-so, an in-depth, yet clear explanation could serve the asker. In my opinion my explanation was "scientific", open and well-structured, and stresses openness, freedom, will power, own resposibility and mutual understanding. Actually it's much more open, free and not-pegging-down than theory of evolution and astrology.
I don't hope that I'm hateful but I'm afraid that your objection to my explanation basically reflects fear that everything in life is related to some impalpable powers / factors anyway.



A quote form the linked posting you suggested:

(Henry explains)
....
There are certain "Possible Non-Translation Exceptions"--ie. topics that are not about translation or the translation industry--that are listed in that document. Holiday greetings used to be among them. However, when the discussion Kirill refers to arose, the decision was taken in consultation with moderators to remove holiday greetings from the list of possible exceptions.

This is different than saying holiday greetings were banned.

Moderators commit, as a condition of serving, to enforcing the definition of scope. Their guidelines include a "decision tree" that suggests handling translation-related posts (art or business) in a slightly different way than topics not related to translation at all.



Like said, whether working or not on Sunday is related to faith. 85% of all people on earth believe some way or another in god, about 2/3 of them in the monotheïstic way (like me) and 1/3 of them in the polytheistic way.

As to *any change* that someone finds a topic or posting offending, I'm afraid some people might find theory of evolution or astrology or some expressions about the creation of new life objectionable, but should we really abandon everything that's related to all impressive and / or intangible "phenomenons".
In that case the site itself would make a change to grow bigoted. I think some well-founded, respectfull explanations and some "Happy Christmas (two versions), Ramadan, Holi, New Year (at least two versions)" and kind of things can counteract the above mentioned spectre.

"Happy Days" will suit anyway, but I hope we wish / give each other more or less automatically happy days, without uttering so! Next to that, people really have different opinions about what "happy days" are.

So big yes-yes to well-meaning background information.

[Edited at 2006-04-12 18:54]


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Dyran Altenburg  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:19
English to Spanish
+ ...
It's all in the rules Apr 12, 2006

[quote]
Therefore, it has always been the site's policy to *immediately* remove any posting that is not related to language and *has any chance* of being controversial. Site and forum moderators have been asked to do the same.
[quote]

If open discussion about controversial topics is not allowed on Proz, it follows that no mention of those topics should be allowed either. The rules are very clear about this point.

Plus, you didn't say something like 'my religious beliefs forbid working on Sundays'. That would have been fine and dandy, and totally related to work practices. Instead, you went on a long "this is the truth" type of monologue about a specific deity.

As for my choice of terminology, here is the entry from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate
Pronunciation: in-'däk-tr&-"nAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -nat·ed; -nat·ing
Etymology: probably from Middle English endoctrinen, from Middle French endoctriner, from Old French, from en- + doctrine doctrine
1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : TEACH
2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle
- in·doc·tri·na·tion /(")in-"däk-tr&-'nA-sh&n/ noun
- in·doc·tri·na·tor /in-'däk-tr&-"nA-t&r/ noun

--
Dyran


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Henk Peelen  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:19
Member (2002)
German to Dutch
+ ...
Biased views lead to biased interpretation of definitions Apr 13, 2006

Dyran Altenburg wrote:

you didn't say something like 'my religious beliefs forbid working on Sundays'. That would have been fine and dandy, and totally related to work practices. Instead, you went on a long "this is the truth" type of monologue about a specific deity.


The use of the word "forbid" shows me you might have an old, stereotype kind of view on religious people: (medieval) people who are afraid of God, the devil, clergyman and the rural community. Could be, but divine rules actually should give people insight, (mutual) understanding and peace of mind and should lead to independence and maturity. I find an explanation like "my religious feelings forbid me ...." somewhat darkly and dandy in negative sense. Moreover, I associate not working on Sundays with freedom and possibilities / engagements to bring my mind to higher levels, not with a prohibition.
The explanation started with "In my opinion" and when someone tells his / her opinion, in my opinion he / she tells things of which he / she thinks they are the truth. It's somewhat (not really) lengthy because background information is crucial here. It's just a monologue because other people are not allowed to write under my membership and face. Theu could participatre on their own behalf, of course (like you do).


Dyran Altenburg wrote:
...
As for my choice of terminology, here is the entry from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate
Pronunciation: in-'däk-tr&-"nAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -nat·ed; -nat·ing
Etymology: probably from Middle English endoctrinen, from Middle French endoctriner, from Old French, from en- + doctrine doctrine
1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : TEACH
2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle
- in·doc·tri·na·tion /(")in-"däk-tr&-'nA-sh&n/ noun
- in·doc·tri·na·tor /in-'däk-tr&-"nA-t&r/ noun
...


It's clear indoctrinate here means the "hard" side of teach, that is teaching something to someone who has to listen to you and are de facto not allwed to reply much the indoctrination. Having said this, I consult the Hyperdictionary that often includes Merriam, though this one is from Wordnet:

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=indoctrination writes
...
WordNet Dictionary

Definition: [n] teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically

Sponsored Links:

See Also: brainwashing, inculcation, ingraining, instilling, instruction, pedagogy, teaching

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \In*doc`tri*na"tion\, n.
The act of indoctrinating, or the condition of being
indoctrinated; instruction in the rudiments and principles of
any science or system of belief; information. --Sir T.
Browne.
...


It's clear there's no power relations between me and other members & users of this site, the topic "God" is related to work on holy days and that I like an open discussion.
So, no problem.


Yet we treat religion, and I take the first and last definitions of Hyperdictionary.com.
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=religion writes:
...
WordNet Dictionary

Definition: [n] a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
[n] institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

...

Dream Dictionary

Definition: Dreaming that you are deeply religious, foretells of a negative turn to your business affairs and a disruption to your life. Dreaming that you are over religious means that your goody goody character will repulsed your lover or mate.

Glossary

Definition: a framework of beliefs relating to supernatural or superhuman beings or forces that transcend the everyday material world.


So, if "scientific" explanations / opinions about supernatural / superhuman powers / beings should be forbidden, it's clear that topics / positings / remarks about astrology should be forbidden as well. Next theory of evolution and onomatics appear to be in the danger area. Theory of evolution, for instance, actually is a belief, established by Charlie Darwin, nothing more than a huge extrapolation based on some relics. Theory of evolution hypothizes a Big Bang, expansion to a maximum volume, shrinking to a minimum, next Big Bang and so on.
So, before our BB-expansion-shrinking cyclus "n" there was a "n-1"cyclus, and before the "n-87" cyclus there is supposed to be a "n-88" cyclus. And before that? Where is the real origin? (However, I have to admit that the E=mc2 based God isn't immediately as clear as it might seem in first instance). Lot of people say theory of evolution actually is a religion as well, because the missing really understandable Origing actually means everything conclusion you draw from some relics and background radiation actually refer to a supernatural power.


What professors call scientific isn't always so much scientific as people want you to accept. Actually a lot of "scientific proven" hypotheses are just ways to present things in a structural way to a broad audience, assumptions, probably beliefs or even religions.

1) A well-founded, clear, voluntary explanation starting with the words "in my opinion" actually is the opposite of indoctrination! Moreover, it counteracts indoctrination, because it opens ways to separate church and state!!!!
2) Surprisingly, "God" seems not to be much more a religion toipic than astrology, onomastics, and theory of evolution, because you can't sientifically decipher the real structure and / or origin of the latter three.


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Dyran Altenburg  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:19
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not so different views after all Apr 13, 2006

Henk Peelen wrote:
2) Surprisingly, "God" seems not to be much more a religion toipic than astrology
uote]

Exactly.

--
Dyran


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