| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Poll: What is your general impression when you see the word "dragon" or its image? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| Beautiful creatures | Apr 13, 2006 |
I've never thought of dragons as evil, but as beautiful and powerful fantasy creatures. Creatures that can be frightening of course, but not necessarily.
In fact I associate dragons with the one from the Neverending Story, that I read like a million times when I was a child. Falkor is a luck dragon, whose voice is supposed to sound like a bronze bell (I didn't like what they did to him in the movie, maybe now they'd do it better).
I also think of Chihiro's Journey. Wel... See more I've never thought of dragons as evil, but as beautiful and powerful fantasy creatures. Creatures that can be frightening of course, but not necessarily.
In fact I associate dragons with the one from the Neverending Story, that I read like a million times when I was a child. Falkor is a luck dragon, whose voice is supposed to sound like a bronze bell (I didn't like what they did to him in the movie, maybe now they'd do it better).
I also think of Chihiro's Journey. Well I guess I just see what I want to see. To me the "evil" dragons in myths and fairy tales, like Saint George's or the Sleeping Beauty's dragons, are just metaphors. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Süsü, the famous one-headed :).. | Apr 13, 2006 |
Csaba Ban wrote:
The main character in the puppet series, Süsü, was a decendant of 3-headed father and a 7-headed grandfather, but he himself was unfortunate enough to be born with only one head.
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Anyone in Hungary whose childhood fell any time after 1980 immediately associates to this particular character when thinking of a dragon.
Csaba
I just want to add to Csaba's comment that he is perfectly right! I loved Süsü, this sweet, funny and sensitive dragon. I think a whole Hungarian generation grew up with his 'myth'.
I admit that he is also a bit 'dinosaur'-like, but he is really really adorable!: )
On the other hand, in traditional Hungarian fairy tales the dragon is usually an evil creature which has to be defeated by a brave young hero in order to save the princess. Obviously then they get married and live happily till they die..
| | | | Özden Arıkan 
Germany
Local time: 21:08
Member
English to Turkish
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is the first thing I associate with the concept of dragon. It's not a cute creature, I have to admit , but I don't believe that its connotations were originally negative in the Turkish culture - remembering that we were neighbors with the Chinese. Or, would being neighbors be sufficient reason in itself for negative connotations? But I don't think so, because dragon is a male name in Turkish. Our word for it is either ejder or ejderha with Persian origins. (Interesting point, we couldn't have learnt it from Persians, then perhaps a name change has been the case.) And in its first form it's a male name, as I said. Anyway, first thing that comes to mind is a powerful being, not particularly or necessarily unfriendly, but certainly formidable.
However, for the last couple of years, for me dragon also brings up the Dutch language. Relying on my belief that the Dutch wouldn't get offended at such things: my daughter had begun to speak Dutch all of a sudden during a 2-week stay in Utrecht (not surprising for young children), and she very funnily called it the "Drache Sprache" (dragon language) due to the nasal g's. She loves dragons, though, I have to add
Anyway, Kevin, I hope this comment from an old neighbor wouldn't sound sarcastic or unfriendly, but...
Kevin wrote:
It was about a Chinese professor's suggestion to create a new English word for the Chinese dragon so as to differentiate it from the dragon that has been portrayed in the west.
...this sounds unreasonable to me, as well as familiar. Unreasonable, because how on earth "can you create a new word" in someone else's language? Familiar, because in Turkey, too, there's a freaky campaign that is revived every decade to "change something in the English language". Hahha, your guess is correct: they don't want the English-speakers call our country by the name of a bird! They haven't had any success yet, though, but perhaps the strategy is wrong: instead of trying to change the name of the country, they should perhaps press for a name change for the bird!
[Edited at 2006-04-13 11:11] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Roige (X)
Spain
Local time: 21:08
English to Spanish
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| Gastrointestinal problems (Cardiff diet?) | Apr 13, 2006 |
I pity dragons. They make me think of an eurodinosaur dragging on with heartburn, bad breath, ongoing discomfort and foul mood, always fuming and only happy when sleeping and dreaming with little fluffy fluttery Merlins and Arthurs. Lovely creatures though, non-ziggy-rolling babies mainly, provided one wears a mask, and I love to see the flag when Cymru beats the Wilkinson Rose at Twicks and wins the Five... sorry amicci, Six Nations. But this might just be my rambling imagination playing games.... See more I pity dragons. They make me think of an eurodinosaur dragging on with heartburn, bad breath, ongoing discomfort and foul mood, always fuming and only happy when sleeping and dreaming with little fluffy fluttery Merlins and Arthurs. Lovely creatures though, non-ziggy-rolling babies mainly, provided one wears a mask, and I love to see the flag when Cymru beats the Wilkinson Rose at Twicks and wins the Five... sorry amicci, Six Nations. But this might just be my rambling imagination playing games... Blame it on Tolkien & Co...
Cheers
Paul ▲ Collapse
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| For lack of suitable options... | Apr 13, 2006 |
...I decided to share my (personal) impressions here. When I think of dragons, I generally think of the following:
powerful (as in mighty)
old (as in hundreds, if not thousands, of years old)
symbolic (as in heavily laden with many meanings, i.e. often appears in tattoos)
My love of fantasy stories gives me these associations:
fantastic (as in fairy tales)
intelligent (as in smart, but not necessarily wise)
bu... See more ...I decided to share my (personal) impressions here. When I think of dragons, I generally think of the following:
powerful (as in mighty)
old (as in hundreds, if not thousands, of years old)
symbolic (as in heavily laden with many meanings, i.e. often appears in tattoos)
My love of fantasy stories gives me these associations:
fantastic (as in fairy tales)
intelligent (as in smart, but not necessarily wise)
burning (literally, i.e. consuming fire, and symbolically, i.e. will-power)
And my religious upbringing gives me these associations:
evil (because of their obvious relation to serpents)
seductive (again, the scene in the Garden of Eden)
greedy (I don't really know where that one comes from, but it probably fits in here)
Unfortunately, I don't know much about the Chinese symbology of the dragon - it would interest me though (dragons are cool).
BTW - I agree with everything that Kirill said above.
[Edited at 2006-04-13 12:01] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henk Peelen
Netherlands
Local time: 21:08
Member (2002)
German to Dutch
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SITE LOCALIZER | Now the funny part: make fun of something/-body is in Dutch "poke the dragon with something/-body" | Apr 13, 2006 |
Özden Arıkan wrote: ... However, for the last couple of years, for me dragon also brings up the Dutch language. Relying on my belief that the Dutch wouldn't get offended at such things: my daughter had begun to speak Dutch all of a sudden during a 2-week stay in Utrecht (not surprising for young children), and she very funnily called it the "Drache Sprache" (dragon language) due to the nasal g's. She loves dragons, though, I have to add ...
For some reason unclear to me, the Dutch language for "poke fune at, make fun of, ridicule, jibe at something / somebody" has the expression "poke the dragon with something / somebody" = de draak steken met iets / iemand, so your daughter "stochert den Drache mit der Drachesprache" = "pokes the dragon with the dragon language"
For instance:
http://macwereld.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1015&Itemid=166
Steve Jobs steekt draak met Michael Dell in interne email
=
"In an internal e-mail Steve Jobs pokes fun at Michael Dell"
Anyway this posting did remind me of my Toto compilation CD "The hits of Toto" including St. George And The Dragon, I'll supply the love, 99 and more. Wow!
[Edited at 2006-04-13 12:41]
| | | | | In Brazil, dragon (dragão)... | Apr 13, 2006 |
... can also mean a really ugly woman, which is sometimes also described as a "cannon" (canhão).
| | | | Özden Arıkan
Germany
Local time: 21:08
Member
English to Turkish
+ ...
| There's more to it than just being neighbors, it seems | Apr 13, 2006 |
Kevin, I've just found some interesting etymologic data here. In fact, after reading Henk's posting, I thought hard whether we had any dragon-related expressions in Turkish, and that led me to search for the origins. Because, as I said, even though the current Turkish word for dragon is of Persian origin, it is very unlikely that Turks learned the concept from the Persian, with whom they came into contact long after their relationship with the Chinese. And here are some dragons in various Turkic... See more Kevin, I've just found some interesting etymologic data here. In fact, after reading Henk's posting, I thought hard whether we had any dragon-related expressions in Turkish, and that led me to search for the origins. Because, as I said, even though the current Turkish word for dragon is of Persian origin, it is very unlikely that Turks learned the concept from the Persian, with whom they came into contact long after their relationship with the Chinese. And here are some dragons in various Turkic languages: uluv, uluw, ulu, lu. They all look very similar to the Chinese loong, don't they? Moreover, ulu is still used in modern Turkish and it means great, esteemed, high, sublime, etc., with connotations pertaining to wisdom and experience, rather than pure power. And one form of it (Uluğ) is again a personal name. (In case Turkish-speaking forum readers are interested, here is the link: http://www.karalahana.com/makaleler/azdehar.htm )
Another source mentions that the pre-Islamic Turkish word for dragon was büke, which also meant "wiseman". So, it seems that my folks, adapting a name for this being that's derived from the Persian for "snake", adapting formidable images of it, but at the same time making it a personal name to honor its past with connotations of wisdom, seem to stick to their borderline dwelling between the two realms
[Edited at 2006-04-13 15:57] ▲ Collapse
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| Love the question, but the prof is fighting a losing battle. | Apr 13, 2006 |
Some scattered thoughts:
Dina Abdo wrote: IMO, that professor needs to find something to do
I agree with Dina. A Chinese dragon looks like a dragon, so we're going to call it a dragon. Some people are open to learning new associations from other cultures, some are not.
This is the most interesting poll I've seen in a long time! And very relevant to translation--but then, is there any topic in the world that isn't?
I just finished a translation in which I changed "pigeons" to "doves" and "mice" to "rats," just because of the emotional charge borne by the words. It's important to know what mental images are inspired in others by the words we write.
On the other hand, we have taken well to the newer English spelling and pronunciation of Chinese place names (Beijing instead of Peking, eg), so maybe there's hope for changing the name of Turkey! I would vote for Turkia, since I'm accustomed to the Spanish Turquía. For English speakers it would involve adding one short syllable. Easy to do. Just get the Turkish government to inform the U.S. media that the new version is politically correct.
I took the evil, scary, harmful option due to fairy-tale associations. However, my brother collects dragons and I recently got him a beautiful blown-glass one and another in pewter, and my associations with his collection are "beautiful, fascinating, exotic."
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 15:08
| The song, the movie... | Apr 13, 2006 |
It is true that for Mexicans a dragon represents a misterious creature from far away. However, as a child attending a bilingual school, one song I learned in English was "Puff, the magic dragon" (I think it was sung by the group Peter, Paul and Mary). The dragon portrayed in this song is sweet and friendly, so no negative connotations for me.
About six months ago I saw a TV show that blew my mind away. It is called "Dragon's World". I had aways thought of dragons as a myth, and he... See more It is true that for Mexicans a dragon represents a misterious creature from far away. However, as a child attending a bilingual school, one song I learned in English was "Puff, the magic dragon" (I think it was sung by the group Peter, Paul and Mary). The dragon portrayed in this song is sweet and friendly, so no negative connotations for me.
About six months ago I saw a TV show that blew my mind away. It is called "Dragon's World". I had aways thought of dragons as a myth, and here is this program offering what could be considered a scientific explanation of why dragons might have been real!
Of course it is fantasy (the subtitle of the dvd is "A fantasy made real. You too will believe", but it is so well made, and the facts presented are so interesing (like how they were able to spew fire, and to fly, being as heavy as they were), that I am still amazed. The movie makes one see dragons through a completely different lens!
Here's a link to a review on the film: http://www.kidsturncentral.com/topics/tvmovies/dragonworld.htm
[Edited at 2006-04-13 18:38] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The Dragon and the Serpent? :) | Apr 13, 2006 |
Here is how the dragon is portrayed in the Revelation 12:7-9: 'And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found anymore in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent..."
So in christian mythology, in Renaissance art, in early romance stories, the dragon is always depicted as a terrible monster, or as the evil power, a number of saints have the dragon... See more Here is how the dragon is portrayed in the Revelation 12:7-9: 'And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found anymore in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent..."
So in christian mythology, in Renaissance art, in early romance stories, the dragon is always depicted as a terrible monster, or as the evil power, a number of saints have the dragon as an attribute as they are said to have fought against the dragon.
In my native language, Macedonian, there is another word for dragon, or rather meaning "a serpent", "lamja", which is also used to signify a vile woman)
But in my perception, the dragon is always the beautiful chinese symbol of prosperity. A friend of mine from Shanghai, a designer and illustrator of children's books, once said: Who can best paint a dragon, if not a Chinese (person) ?
My regards to the professor... ▲ Collapse
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Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 22:08
Member (2004)
English to Russian
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| Greedy (also to Derek) | Apr 13, 2006 |
Paul Roigé wrote:
I pity dragons. They make me think of an eurodinosaur dragging on with heartburn, bad breath, ongoing discomfort and foul mood, always fuming...
Lol, Paul, great posting)
Derek, the image of `greedy' may probably come from the Tolkien's image of dragons collecting treasure - gold, first of all, - and guarding it carefully.
Still, I always wondered of two things:
1) Why dragons need treasures - all these gold things, jewels, etc.? To buy tons of ice-air-fresh chewing gum for their foul breath?
2) Even more strange: why they need to capture beautiful princesses? The idea would probably make even Freud himself to feel completely lost
Back to serious, more scientific mode:
Dragons are symbols of a very dangerous, unexpected, truly chaotic challenge which heroes meet in their heroic adventure(no hardships - no heroes, after all!). So, in myths, a dragon is often an ultimate challenge which a hero has to overcome to get so desired boons and then to bring them back to the earthly world to share with all humans.
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Kirill Semenov wrote:
Derek, the image of `greedy' may probably come from the Tolkien's image of dragons collecting treasure - gold, first of all, - and guarding it carefully.
Yes, my associations are very much coloured by the musings of Tolkien - something I do not regret at all.
Kirill Semenov wrote:
1) Why dragons need treasures - all these gold things, jewels, etc.? To buy tons of ice-air-fresh chewing gum for their foul breath?
'Cause they're so darn pretty!
| | | | Özden Arıkan
Germany
Local time: 21:08
Member
English to Turkish
+ ...
| For a moment... | Apr 13, 2006 |
...I thought you were answering the question "Why do dragons need to capture beautiful princesses?", Derek!
Derek Gill Franßen wrote: Kirill Semenov wrote:
1) Why dragons need treasures - all these gold things, jewels, etc.? To buy tons of ice-air-fresh chewing gum for their foul breath? 'Cause they're so darn pretty!
[Edited at 2006-04-13 17:42]
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